Do Sinners Really Go to heck? (Split-- Theist Q&A)

[ric]

If we've lived our lives in such a way that our "bad inclination" side is the weightier, then I don't think we'll have much of a shot at that. We might be separated from him for an eternity.

That being said, I don't believe in heck.

Hmmmm... considering separation from God for an eternity is the definition of heck, there's a bit of a contradiction there.

I think Kait was referring more to the eternal torment and punishment that is usually associated with the Christian view of heck. Yes, it's separation from God, but it's also misery and eternal isolation and...torture.

It's usually (and, in my opinion, falsely) believed that there's eternal fire and torture and all that. But I believe these are mere metaphors for the pain and torment brought about by separation from God alone. I don't believe God would make a big dungeon and send demons down there to torture people. I believe heck is complete and total separation from God, something that would bring about unimaginable pain.

[Christian A.]

If we've lived our lives in such a way that our "bad inclination" side is the weightier, then I don't think we'll have much of a shot at that. We might be separated from him for an eternity.

That being said, I don't believe in heck.

Hmmmm... considering separation from God for an eternity is the definition of heck, there's a bit of a contradiction there.

I think Kait was referring more to the eternal torment and punishment that is usually associated with the Christian view of heck. Yes, it's separation from God, but it's also misery and eternal isolation and...torture.

It's usually (and, in my opinion, falsely) believed that there's eternal fire and torture and all that. But I believe these are mere metaphors for the pain and torment brought about by separation from God alone. I don't believe God would make a big dungeon and send demons down there to torture people. I believe heck is complete and total separation from God, something that would bring about unimaginable pain.

Well I don't believe demons do the torturing. I think God pours out His wrath on unbelievers for their sin.

And if heck was just separation from God, wouldn't it be pretty attractive to atheists and other God-haters? I mean, all their lives they're trying to separate God from themselves, so wouldn't they want to spend an eternity away from Him?

But I guess I'm getting off topic. So I'll stop.

[Sherlock]

I agree with Maximus' view. The punishment from being away from God for all eternity would be sufficient. I highly disagree with the idea that God is torturing people in heck - I have never heard this view before, but I think it contradicts what we know about the nature of God. While there may be justice in providing consequences for sin here on earth, I see no justice in God torturing a soul for all eternity.

[bookworm]

And if heck was just separation from God, wouldn't it be pretty attractive to atheists and other God-haters? I mean, all their lives they're trying to separate God from themselves, so wouldn't they want to spend an eternity away from Him?

No, because here on Earth they want to be apart because they just don’t believe. After death they’ll realize the truth, and they’ll know that they were wrong, but are now stuck with that choice.

[American Eagle]

This is a topic I'm currently struggling with; my church believes that dying without salvation results in a literal, burning, excruciating fire for all eternity. While this almost sounds reasonable for Hitler or serial murders and rapists, my heart breaks for the billions in distant lands that will die without hearing the full Gospel. I personally think God, in one way or another, gives every person a chance to be saved, I do wonder if God will really force the thievin' native boy from Uganda to suffer for eons of years.

I do believe in a literal heck, but perhaps there's more to it than most Christians believe. We believe that God gave us free will because he wants willing worshipers (not slaves), but then we believe God will force "every knee to bow" before He sends them off to heck? Perhaps God will plead with the unsaved after death?

I don't know. God is good, and I will trust that He knows best. Come what may.

[bookworm]

my heart breaks for the billions in distant lands that will die without hearing the full Gospel.

If they haven’t heard it they can’t be faulted for not accepting it. heck is for those who reject God, not those who are ignorant of Him.

[American Eagle]

my heart breaks for the billions in distant lands that will die without hearing the full Gospel.

If they haven’t heard it they can’t be faulted for not accepting it. heck is for those who reject God, not those who are ignorant of Him.

Using that train of thought, where do all the ignorant ones go?

[jelly]

You could always just embrace universalism, AE. Heart-break cured.

[bookworm]

Using that train of thought, where do all the ignorant ones go?

Ignorance on Earth does not mean ignorance forever, everyone has to chose God or not chose Him sometime. Most people hear about and chose to accept God or not during their life, so when they die their choice has been made. If someone didn’t know God during their life, when they die God would reveal what they weren’t able to hear, and they would make their choice then.

[American Eagle]

Let's do it together, Jelly.

Your logic is sound, bookworm. That is the first time I've ever heard such a theory.

[snubs]

I'm just saying IF there was a 'heck' (or separation for God thing that you talk about), would I go to heck (or be separated from God) for believing the way I do?

[Christian A.]

Using that train of thought, where do all the ignorant ones go?

Ignorance on Earth does not mean ignorance forever, everyone has to chose God or not chose Him sometime. Most people hear about and chose to accept God or not during their life, so when they die their choice has been made. If someone didn’t know God during their life, when they die God would reveal what they weren’t able to hear, and they would make their choice then.

People don't go to heck because they reject God. They go to heck because they sin. Everyone sins, and thus everyone deserves heck. No one deserves to hear the gospel and be saved, which is why God is so merciful and gracious in providing it for us. But He is not obligated to be so merciful and gracious to everyone. Thus, there will be people who go to heck without ever hearing the Gospel. Romans 1:20 tells us that they are without excuse.

This passage from Luke would strongly imply that some will be punished in heck, even though they didn't know that God offered salvation--only they will be punished less severely:

—

But yes, I agree with Kait. We should move this over to CCDS. Who would like to do the honors?

[American Eagle]

This now has its on topic. Split from Theist (but not a "Christian") Q & A!

[Christian A.]

So what Biblical evidence do y'all have that everyone must hear the gospel if God is going to justly send them to heck?

[~JCGJ~]

This is a topic I'm currently struggling with; my church believes that dying without salvation results in a literal, burning, excruciating fire for all eternity. While this almost sounds reasonable for Hitler or serial murders and rapists, my heart breaks for the billions in distant lands that will die without hearing the full Gospel. I personally think God, in one way or another, gives every person a chance to be saved, I do wonder if God will really force the thievin' native boy from Uganda to suffer for eons of years.

I do believe in a literal heck, but perhaps there's more to it than most Christians believe. We believe that God gave us free will because he wants willing worshipers (not slaves), but then we believe God will force "every knee to bow" before He sends them off to heck? Perhaps God will plead with the unsaved after death?

I don't know. God is good, and I will trust that He knows best. Come what may.

I've come to believe it this way:

If someone is truely and humbly searching for God (even if they don't know who God is, or haven't been "introduced" to Him), I believe God will save that soul.

I don't mean to blaspheme by saying what God does or doesn't do, I just think it doesn't seem very just to punish someone for not being "introduced" to Him.

I hope I'm not being too confusing here...
Am I making any sense at all?

[BlessedCheesemaker]

My firm opinion is that I don't know. All I do know is that our holy God loves sinners and he will judge them when the time comes. I do lean towards the belief that he will be merciful to those who were never given the chance to hear about him, but honestly I have enough work trying to follow Jesus without trying to figure out how God will deal with cases like these when what I believe won't really change anything any way. Those are just my few thoughts.

[Marvin D.]

What if God sends everyone who didn't accept him to heck and there, it's Satan who tortures them and dies what he wants?

[jelly]

My firm opinion is that I don't know.

This is the only quote from this discussion that I would firmly agree with. As interesting as the topic may seem, I hope everyone can realize that we're basically like a group of inexplicably incoherent bacteria trying to comprehend the vast complexity of the galaxy. It's okay to hypothesize about the unknown, but remember that you're operating with a mindset literally incapable of comprehending the idea of an afterlife to begin with.

[Christian A.]

This is a topic I'm currently struggling with; my church believes that dying without salvation results in a literal, burning, excruciating fire for all eternity. While this almost sounds reasonable for Hitler or serial murders and rapists, my heart breaks for the billions in distant lands that will die without hearing the full Gospel. I personally think God, in one way or another, gives every person a chance to be saved, I do wonder if God will really force the thievin' native boy from Uganda to suffer for eons of years.

I do believe in a literal heck, but perhaps there's more to it than most Christians believe. We believe that God gave us free will because he wants willing worshipers (not slaves), but then we believe God will force "every knee to bow" before He sends them off to heck? Perhaps God will plead with the unsaved after death?

I don't know. God is good, and I will trust that He knows best. Come what may.

I've come to believe it this way:

If someone is truely and humbly searching for God (even if they don't know who God is, or haven't been "introduced" to Him), I believe God will save that soul.

The only problem there is that Psalm 14 and Romans 3 tell us that no one seeks God by nature. Jesus said that a person can only seek the Father if He draws that person to Himself. So yes, everyone who is seeking God will find Him, but no one will seek God without God prodding him to do so.

[Astronomer]

I'd just like to add this in as a thought: In Revelation, John writes that heck will be emptied, then those that were in it will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:13). Therefore, according to that verse, I would assume that heck is not a lake of fire at all, but something else.