It's not mine.Sapphire wrote:No, it's mine.darcie wrote:It's my fault.
WHY IS THIS PLACE SO DEAD!?
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Whitty Whit
- Whittier than you
- Posts: 5985
- Joined: June 2010
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@OP:
Because you came back.
Because you came back.
1x admin, 2x moderator. 3-26-11, 5-25-12
#FOREVERKITTYJehoshaphat wrote:I mean every election is basically just choosing what type of government we want.
Relevant.
True but sad.
"I still see Marvin as a newbie that is just as cool as an oldie." --snubs
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
On the plus side, this thread does seem to attract traffic from people who don't post very often. 
It's because people aren't posting.
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Looking beyond that admittedly brilliant and deeply insightful remark , the main reason why the forum is quiet is because it primarily consists of older (I mean in physical age) members who are busy doing other things. This is not new; it has been true for a long time. An Adventures in Odyssey-based community that consists only of adults is going to be either very serious or very dead.
The deeper question of why the community consists primarily of adults has a more complex answer.
The first thing to take into account is that the ToO isn't well-known. You have to go out of your way to look for an online community, probably on Google but maybe on the AIOWiki, before you find it. That takes a lot of work when someone could just join a Facebook group. That said, although the forum could probably be advertised better, I've come to recognize that this isn't the underlying reason, but more of a symptom of the real reason.
To get to the real reason, we have to consider the kind of people that this community was aimed towards. Because the focus is ostensibly Adventures in Odyssey, and also roleplaying Town aspects, that means you should primarily expect preteen/teenage conservative Christians who are AIO fans. I don't think it'd be a big leap to say that this was what the site's original audience tended to be like, or that most of the site's members over the past 18 years have more or less have fit into this group, at least when they signed up.
But the way conservative Christian families handle Internet usage is different nowadays. A few years ago, it wasn't so uncommon to let kids explore the Web freely or semi-freely. That has changed as the Web and the world have gotten darker. These days, parents are more aware of the risks, and prefer sites that have content that has been screened or filtered in advance by people they trust; a random internet message board doesn't qualify for this. Besides, the ToO's actual membership has shifted from its original base to be significantly older and more left-leaning, so that if anyone who fit in the original target group did show up, there would be a culture shock when they realized that a fair percentage of the semi-active members not only disagree with most of their beliefs, but are actually opposed to Focus on the Family.
It has been my suspicion for some time that if you want a thriving Adventures in Odyssey message board these days, it needs two things:
1) Official or semi-official recognition, so that people who visit the main Odyssey website are likely to find it.
2) A guarantee that all content will be safe and in line with the worldview of Focus on the Family and Adventures in Odyssey (and their many fans and supporters).
You have to have 2) to get 1). I've floated the idea before that the ToO could be transformed to fit this mold, but nobody has ever seemed interested in making these sacrifices, because it would involve dismantling most of the current experience and history of the site. But now, even if people were willing to go along with this for the sake of the site's activity levels, the opportunity has passed.
Some time ago, the official Odyssey and Club websites were redesigned. I'm not presently a member of the Club, so I can't give a detailed analysis of how it works or what it looks like (@snubs or @Bren would have a better idea), but my sources suggest that it now includes at least semi-organized discussion sections. As with the comment sections before the redesign, the board is fully moderated, so parents feel that this is a safe place for their youth to go to.
That fits my first and second criteria perfectly. Their activity is booming.
I try to be an optimist when I look at the future of things I've been involved with, but the statistical reality is that the ToO (and also the Soda Shop) are probably not going to be especially 'happening' places again. We might continue to get a few members here and there, particularly older teens, college students, or nostalgic adults who have some background with Odyssey, and we might see some peaks or spikes in activity sometimes (like during the B Team's term time last year, or when the Rydell Revelations came out and everyone commented on and criticized them), but if you want to see consistent activity and energy on an AIO fan site, you have to go where the kids are. That means that the thing to do is to put down your money for a Club subscription and accept that your posts are going to be pre-screened. This is the state of the AIO online community, and it is unlikely to change, for the foreseeable future.
_____________________________
Looking beyond that admittedly brilliant and deeply insightful remark
, the main reason why the forum is quiet is because it primarily consists of older (I mean in physical age) members who are busy doing other things. This is not new; it has been true for a long time. An Adventures in Odyssey-based community that consists only of adults is going to be either very serious or very dead.The deeper question of why the community consists primarily of adults has a more complex answer.
The first thing to take into account is that the ToO isn't well-known. You have to go out of your way to look for an online community, probably on Google but maybe on the AIOWiki, before you find it. That takes a lot of work when someone could just join a Facebook group. That said, although the forum could probably be advertised better, I've come to recognize that this isn't the underlying reason, but more of a symptom of the real reason.
To get to the real reason, we have to consider the kind of people that this community was aimed towards. Because the focus is ostensibly Adventures in Odyssey, and also roleplaying Town aspects, that means you should primarily expect preteen/teenage conservative Christians who are AIO fans. I don't think it'd be a big leap to say that this was what the site's original audience tended to be like, or that most of the site's members over the past 18 years have more or less have fit into this group, at least when they signed up.
But the way conservative Christian families handle Internet usage is different nowadays. A few years ago, it wasn't so uncommon to let kids explore the Web freely or semi-freely. That has changed as the Web and the world have gotten darker. These days, parents are more aware of the risks, and prefer sites that have content that has been screened or filtered in advance by people they trust; a random internet message board doesn't qualify for this. Besides, the ToO's actual membership has shifted from its original base to be significantly older and more left-leaning, so that if anyone who fit in the original target group did show up, there would be a culture shock when they realized that a fair percentage of the semi-active members not only disagree with most of their beliefs, but are actually opposed to Focus on the Family.
It has been my suspicion for some time that if you want a thriving Adventures in Odyssey message board these days, it needs two things:
1) Official or semi-official recognition, so that people who visit the main Odyssey website are likely to find it.
2) A guarantee that all content will be safe and in line with the worldview of Focus on the Family and Adventures in Odyssey (and their many fans and supporters).
You have to have 2) to get 1). I've floated the idea before that the ToO could be transformed to fit this mold, but nobody has ever seemed interested in making these sacrifices, because it would involve dismantling most of the current experience and history of the site. But now, even if people were willing to go along with this for the sake of the site's activity levels, the opportunity has passed.
Some time ago, the official Odyssey and Club websites were redesigned. I'm not presently a member of the Club, so I can't give a detailed analysis of how it works or what it looks like (@snubs or @Bren would have a better idea), but my sources suggest that it now includes at least semi-organized discussion sections. As with the comment sections before the redesign, the board is fully moderated, so parents feel that this is a safe place for their youth to go to.
That fits my first and second criteria perfectly. Their activity is booming.
I try to be an optimist when I look at the future of things I've been involved with, but the statistical reality is that the ToO (and also the Soda Shop) are probably not going to be especially 'happening' places again. We might continue to get a few members here and there, particularly older teens, college students, or nostalgic adults who have some background with Odyssey, and we might see some peaks or spikes in activity sometimes (like during the B Team's term time last year, or when the Rydell Revelations came out and everyone commented on and criticized them), but if you want to see consistent activity and energy on an AIO fan site, you have to go where the kids are. That means that the thing to do is to put down your money for a Club subscription and accept that your posts are going to be pre-screened. This is the state of the AIO online community, and it is unlikely to change, for the foreseeable future.
I think that's a pretty good assessment of some the reasons there's less posting on the ToO, Bob. I see the appeal for parents to have a fully moderated forum for their children, and that just isn't the ToO. I'm glad that is an option for those who want that, which wasn't the case back in the day as far as I recall. I think there's room for different kinds of boards, and I think people do keep dropping by the ToO (however sporadically) because this place continues to have meaning and good memories for a lot of people, but as adults with lives to live, that doesn't result in a lot of posting time for quite a few people. When I think of how much time I spent on this site the first years it existed, I could never do that now. To log on, make a post or two, and go on to the rest of my life is actually kind of nice. More activity would be nice too - but I could never keep up with stacks of new threads like I used to, and I suspect that's true of a lot of us who continue to drop by and enjoy what the ToO is now.
I'm a club member but have not used or participated in the forum in any way, just out of lack of time/interest.
I'm a club member but have not used or participated in the forum in any way, just out of lack of time/interest.
Haha, I love this summarization.Bob wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:35 pmAn Adventures in Odyssey-based community that consists only of adults is going to be either very serious or very dead.
This is a really interesting point. When I joined this place at age 14, I was part of a wave of young newcomers; even then (fifteen years ago!) I remember feeling the presence of an "old guard" that felt a lot more grown up and edgy and not too happy that a bunch of kids were posting stuff that kids post (a.k.a whatever nonsense rocketed Marvin's post count up past 10k).Bob wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:35 pmBut the way conservative Christian families handle Internet usage is different nowadays. A few years ago, it wasn't so uncommon to let kids explore the Web freely or semi-freely. That has changed as the Web and the world have gotten darker. These days, parents are more aware of the risks, and prefer sites that have content that has been screened or filtered in advance by people they trust; a random internet message board doesn't qualify for this. Besides, the ToO's actual membership has shifted from its original base to be significantly older and more left-leaning, so that if anyone who fit in the original target group did show up, there would be a culture shock when they realized that a fair percentage of the semi-active members not only disagree with most of their beliefs, but are actually opposed to Focus on the Family.
I think the ToO has always had more of an "adult" vibe to it.It is wild to think that I was allowed to freely explore the [dial-up] internet as a kid, and you're probably right that that would never fly today. My parents didn't care until EK and xaio prank-called my home phone number in real life and suddenly my dad was like "Um... what is this website, exactly?"
Somehow I must have explained my way out of that one, though.
The ToO holds claim to more hours of attention during my lifetime than any other website.Fallacy of false continuum. // bookworm
Any cupcake can be made holy through being baptized in the name of the Butter, the Vanilla and the Powdered Sugar. // Kait
Any cupcake can be made holy through being baptized in the name of the Butter, the Vanilla and the Powdered Sugar. // Kait
After Biden bans TikTok he should go after Facebook next so we become more prominent!Bob wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:35 pmthe ToO isn't well-known. You have to go out of your way to look for an online community ... That takes a lot of work when someone could just join a Facebook group.
Bob gave an excellent summation.
For my own part I want to elaborate on what Bob wrote. 1. This site started in 2005 as an offshoot of the Town Hall boards, which started around....2000? Someone can help me out with that fact. 2005 was when facebook was in it's infancy and, even more relevantly, Reddit wasn't around yet. With the absence of those two sites, forum sites with a narrow focus were much more common. That simply is no longer the case, and as such the ones that remain are no longer popular. Why spend much time here when you can spend time in a one stop shop like reddit? And then 2., and again Bob touched on this, the crowd that proliferated this site in it's early days and was used to more specific sites such as this has grown up. I'm pushing 40 and speaking for myself, and with the suspicion that this holds true for lots of others in that age range on this board, the demands on my interests and especially my time are much larger than they were when I was 18. Demands on my time might allow me to lurk once every few weeks or so and post even less frequently. And I'm not married with kids like a lot of those who used to be here are; the demands on their time are of course much greater. Combine these two reasons and the result has been less active older members and fewer newer members hopping aboard.
None of that is bad or good, I think, it just is. And given how the internet works right now I'm just happy the site is getting any attention at all.
edit--Gotta address this:
edit2--Wow, to prove my point number 2, I just noticed that this is my first post in four months.
For my own part I want to elaborate on what Bob wrote. 1. This site started in 2005 as an offshoot of the Town Hall boards, which started around....2000? Someone can help me out with that fact. 2005 was when facebook was in it's infancy and, even more relevantly, Reddit wasn't around yet. With the absence of those two sites, forum sites with a narrow focus were much more common. That simply is no longer the case, and as such the ones that remain are no longer popular. Why spend much time here when you can spend time in a one stop shop like reddit? And then 2., and again Bob touched on this, the crowd that proliferated this site in it's early days and was used to more specific sites such as this has grown up. I'm pushing 40 and speaking for myself, and with the suspicion that this holds true for lots of others in that age range on this board, the demands on my interests and especially my time are much larger than they were when I was 18. Demands on my time might allow me to lurk once every few weeks or so and post even less frequently. And I'm not married with kids like a lot of those who used to be here are; the demands on their time are of course much greater. Combine these two reasons and the result has been less active older members and fewer newer members hopping aboard.
None of that is bad or good, I think, it just is. And given how the internet works right now I'm just happy the site is getting any attention at all.
edit--Gotta address this:
From my own perspective The ToO has been fairly tolerant of the youngins. I first joined the Town Hall boards and they allowed no fun. Even the post a picture of yourself wasn't allowed. Hillingdale (or whatever that part of the site is called now) and Gower's also wouldn't be allowed; we actually had roleplaying at the TH and it was shut down. There's more balance to the force on the ToO.jelly wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:24 pmThis is a really interesting point. When I joined this place at age 14, I was part of a wave of young newcomers; even then (fifteen years ago!) I remember feeling the presence of an "old guard" that felt a lot more grown up and edgy and not too happy that a bunch of kids were posting stuff that kids post (a.k.a whatever nonsense rocketed Marvin's post count up past 10k).
edit2--Wow, to prove my point number 2, I just noticed that this is my first post in four months.
i think another reason we don't see new members is that aio is a kids' show and kids just don't know forums exist. the current generation is growing up in a more curated, corporate internet age. they're also just way more into video content. tiktok, instagram, and youtube continue to grow while platforms like twitter and facebook decline. maybe an aio community would thrive more on reddit or discord, but i also don't imagine many conservative parents are letting their kids on those platforms. oddly, i think there's still a mildly active aio community over on tumblr, which contradicts everything i've written so far. but that's just tumblr.
i also wonder how much of the old userbase still listens to aio. bob pointed out that a lot of us are more left-leaning now, and some of us have left christianity entirely. i personally still identify as a christian, but i'm quite left-leaning and don't want to do anything to support the vile hate group that produces the show anymore. i'm more interested in the community on this forum than the show its based around, but i don't have much to post about without being invested in the show.
i also wonder how much of the old userbase still listens to aio. bob pointed out that a lot of us are more left-leaning now, and some of us have left christianity entirely. i personally still identify as a christian, but i'm quite left-leaning and don't want to do anything to support the vile hate group that produces the show anymore. i'm more interested in the community on this forum than the show its based around, but i don't have much to post about without being invested in the show.
he/him | a little stinker.
That's been part of my deal too. Not going left (if anything I've gone a little more right as I've aged) but the whole not listening to AIO thing anymore. I used to listen to the show on my commute in the car, and then I wound up in the hospital and that put an end to that. Aside from a week long road trip last fall I haven't listened to the show in a year and a half. I'm also not interested in paying for a subscription to the club, and not being in that made it hard to stay engaged. I can't remember the last time I heard a new episode.Steve wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:39 ami also wonder how much of the old userbase still listens to aio. bob pointed out that a lot of us are more left-leaning now, and some of us have left christianity entirely. i personally still identify as a christian, but i'm quite left-leaning and don't want to do anything to support the vile hate group that produces the show anymore. i'm more interested in the community on this forum than the show its based around, but i don't have much to post about without being invested in the show.
Only one of our forums is about AiO, and it's one of the least active ones. Post about literally anything, just like on any other message board!Steve wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:39 ami'm more interested in the community on this forum than the show its based around, but i don't have much to post about without being invested in the show.
Movies/TV and general discussion in Harlequin and Finneman's have always been the predominant focus of my activity here, from the start. Being AiO-related is what enabled me to originally find this site, because it happened to get featured on the Whit's End homepage one day that I viewed it, but not being exclusively AiO-focused is what's kept me here. When I found the site I identified that the community was something special and wanted to be part of it, and I saw that you didn't have to be all-AiO all the time to do that, which was good because even back then while I was familiar with the show in general I wasn't totally up on discussing all the latest episodes, so I simply posted where my personal interests were. That's continued to this day, when I don't know the first thing about the state of modern AiO so I couldn't contribute to a contemporary thread in the Whit's End forum even if I wanted to. That doesn't affect my ability or enjoyment to continue posting here because to me it has always been a general message board with an AiO component for those who want to also engage in that aspect.
The takeaway: People need to post in Harlequin Theatre more! They say things when a movie trailer drops, but hardly ever follow up when the thing actually comes out so I go and see it and write up my thoughts but don't end up posting them because I have the last post in the thread still and don't want to bump it just to give my reaction when I don't know if anyone else ever went.
I say one word and leave for a week and it turns into a thing. Hah.
We’re just a forum version of Japan, an overworked, aging population that has antisocial tendencies.
Following along that line, I feel like Xiao is the only person I still talk to from here regularly, especially since getting off of Facebook. Kinda miss you guys, but I KNOW if we planned some “reunion” or something I would forget about it and come by a week later saying “wow, nobody reminded me?”
We’re just a forum version of Japan, an overworked, aging population that has antisocial tendencies.
This is amazing. I don’t remember doing this but it definitely checks out. I 100% believe I did this and really don’t want to hear anymore of the stupid things we did.jelly wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:24 pmMy parents didn't care until EK and xaio prank-called my home phone number in real life and suddenly my dad was like "Um... what is this website, exactly?”
Following along that line, I feel like Xiao is the only person I still talk to from here regularly, especially since getting off of Facebook. Kinda miss you guys, but I KNOW if we planned some “reunion” or something I would forget about it and come by a week later saying “wow, nobody reminded me?”
On that note I'll be in Japan in a few weeks.EK wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:12 pmWe’re just a forum version of Japan, an overworked, aging population that has antisocial tendencies.
Bwahahaha how did I miss that the first time I read this threadEK wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:12 pmThis is amazing. I don’t remember doing this but it definitely checks out. I 100% believe I did this and really don’t want to hear anymore of the stupid things we did.jelly wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:24 pmMy parents didn't care until EK and xaio prank-called my home phone number in real life and suddenly my dad was like "Um... what is this website, exactly?”
If you didn't have a time when your parents were going "What is this now?" at least once I don't think you had a full ToO experience.
