African Natives and Spears and Conflict, Oh My!

[Tea Ess]

I'm saying that, so far, I haven't seen any qualities (or any other qualities) about this thread other than it's just a place to bemoan certain life problems and enough apathy to asphyxiate a rather large horse.

I have no idea what this means, but it's my new favourite thing in this thread.

It took a little bit of deciphering to completely understand, but I got the meaning right away. I'm going to have to use this some time.

[jennifertwt]

Didn't Odyssey drop the whole "for 8-12 year olds" tag a long time ago because they realized the show has an appeal not limited to that age range? If so, isn't your argument then invalid? Additionally, it would be the parents who are paying for this, which means they need to catch the older listeners attention to, which also might invalidate your argument.

I thought part of the whole latest relaunch was about attracting that original 8-12 year target range.

Now that our financial situation is nearly stabilized and I COULD join the EX Club if I so chose, I find out I can´t because it is only available in the US which just sets me off again. It would be nice to be able to hear these episodes and then judge if the art work is relavent or not. I MIGHT join in December just so I can hear all 12 OAC eps, but I have not made up my mind yet.

[Jonathan]

Didn't Odyssey drop the whole "for 8-12 year olds" tag a long time ago because they realized the show has an appeal not limited to that age range? If so, isn't your argument then invalid? Additionally, it would be the parents who are paying for this, which means they need to catch the older listeners attention to, which also might invalidate your argument.

I thought part of the whole latest relaunch was about attracting that original 8-12 year target range.

That surprises me, as I enjoyed albums 51 through 56 more than albums 46-50.

[Daniel2]

I have heard the episode, and it's based off the story of Dr. Valery Lomilo.

I'd like to believe they consulted her a little about this, and possibly there is an explanation for this? I'm not sure. I listened to the episodes awhile ago, but will listen again, I don't remember. I do remember on the interview following the episode she said up until the 70s the primary weapons were bow and arrow and spears, however the episode does have (what I thought were) machine guns, I don't recall any spears, so I don't imagine this took place back then.

[bookworm]

And also, you say that the "rest of society isn't bothered." You were the first person to show up who didn't even really care.

This is untrue. I showed up when the thread was first made and never posted because I don’t care either way. I can certainly see the reasons to disapprove, but I can also see the reasons to just move on.

[Leonard Meltsner]

I have heard the episode, and it's based off the story of Dr. Valery Lomilo.

I'd like to believe they consulted her a little about this, and possibly there is an explanation for this? I'm not sure. I listened to the episodes awhile ago, but will listen again, I don't remember. I do remember on the interview following the episode she said up until the 70s the primary weapons were bow and arrow and spears, however the episode does have (what I thought were) machine guns, I don't recall any spears, so I don't imagine this took place back then.

Dr. Val was very closely connected with the creation of this episode, especially since she actually played herself as Dr. Sparks! In the episodes, only machine guns are used as weapons. The only place in which there's any kind of "primitive" notion in terms of weapons tech, it's in that art.

[Blitz]

THERE ARRN'T MACHINE GUNS. THEY ARE ASSAULT RIFLES. *shudders at the ignorance of people* Of the AK branch of assault rifles.

[Daniel2]

Finally got around to listing to the episode again. In the first part, Wooton says Condo (sp) does have a spear (and there is reference to his clothing), this is the only mention of a spear that I heard (other than where Wooton mistook a gun for a spear). Dr. Sparks says he is a warrior. In the second episode Condo does issues a challenge to fight. In my imagination this could be a fight with spears or similar, as Condo does carry one, and I'd imagine this is a physical fight, If they had guns this seems like an odd fight. If you search Karamojong warriors on google many of the pictures do show them as a traditional tribe as far as the clothing. I have no idea if this is accurate, but the pictures are not very unlike the drawing. I didn't realize she actually played Dr. Sparks, that's pretty neat, I assume she would have corrected some of the references if they were very incorrect, since she was speaking them. I'd like to believe they did fact check this a little. Anyone familiar with the Karamojong? There's not a lot online, but what I do see, seems to show they are reflecting this fairly accurate.

[jelly]

THERE ARRN'T MACHINE GUNS. THEY ARE ASSAULT RIFLES. *shudders at the ignorance of people*

they*
aren't*

Finally got around to listing to the episode again.

Thanks for filling us in Daniel.

[DanP740]

THERE ARRN'T MACHINE GUNS. THEY ARE ASSAULT RIFLES. *shudders at the ignorance of people* Of the AK branch of assault rifles.

Does it really matter? They're both guns that shoot a lot of bullets.

[Blitz]

On the contrary. Assault rifles have limited bursts to three bullets while the machine gun has unlimited and is way more inaccurate.

[Mr. Sunnys]

I remember also that the Meltsners' trip to Africa was pretty primal. They had to be dropped off via airplane because the there was no civilization below. If this stereotype is misleading, it's definitely not exclusive to the OAC.

Don't you remember that there was a weak and rickety bridge that triggered a waterfall? Apparently not!

Doesn't ANYONE realize that not all of Africa is super advanced? I was doing some school a couple years ago and read that Africa has a lot of wars between tribes. And I know that even if AIO made a mistake, which everyone does, they aren't judging Africa or it's people.

[Blitz]

We have had. But Africans have been using guns instead of spears. *coughs* We do have some rickety bridges. Very few. The only one we actually have in Ghana is for tourists.

[TigerintheShadows]

Doesn't ANYONE realize that not all of Africa is super advanced? I was doing some school a couple years ago and read that Africa has a lot of wars between tribes.

Doesn't mean that they do it with spears while wearing "traditionally tribal" clothing. Not all of Africa is "super advanced", but not all of Africa is the Africa we have unfortunately allowed ourselves to stereotype in our minds.

@Daniel: Is the tribe mentioned in the episode specifically the Karamojong tribe?

And I know that even if AIO made a mistake, which everyone does, they aren't judging Africa or it's people.

No, they may not be judging Africa or its people intentionally, but they are still using artwork riddled with unfortunate implications that they should not have to use solely to advertise. It's true that everyone makes mistakes, but that doesn't grant Focus immunity from being called out on theirs any more than it grants immunity to a regular person.

[Whitty Whit]

On the contrary. Assault rifles have limited bursts to three bullets while the machine gun has unlimited and is way more inaccurate.

Do you mean "selective fire" or "fully automatic" assault rifles? and machine guns are hardly "unlimited". And what do you mean by "machine guns"?

[Daniel2]

Yes, the episode is about the Karamojong tribe, specifically the Pian and Bokora (subtribes?) As I understand it the episode is based on actual events, but modified to, among other things, include Whit and Wooton, and the Doctor's name was changed for some reason as well. I guess I imagine it much like the historical episodes. (Ex: in Lincoln, I never assumed he actually went hunting with Jimmy, or many of the other fictional parts)

I wasn't really going to get involved, just state the episode information while trying not to spoil anything (I don't think I have) since I've heard it, but I will throw out my thought. The artwork is just that, by emphasizing some things it makes it easier to connect with, I guess to me, that's just part of the artwork. If it was 100% accurate and politically correct, it would be difficult to tell what it was. Just two examples, do all nerds wear giant glasses, etc (I could go on and on with this one). like Eugene? Or all farmers wear overalls like Tom? I guess I'm not sure how this is different. Focus has listened and made changes as we all know (Tom, Officer Harley, etc). I'm not offended at all by this, and cannot tell you it's not offensive, since that's a personal thing. If anyone is offended, I think it does make sense to discuss this, and from past actions, I do believe Focus will listen if done the right ways.

To me, I try to reverse this, if there was a show about an Australian that came to the US and went to an Amish community for example, and wrote a story without somehow making it clear that the entire US is not like this, would I be offended? I don't think so. Admittedly it doesn't come up often, but I don't personally know of anyone who thinks all of Africa is "primitive", but many are certainly aware that there are some primitive tribes/areas. Maybe it would be 'better' if they somehow showed that not all of Africa is this way, however it's a true story, and from the little checking I've done, it appears to be relatively accurate. While it's not an episode I would likely pick to listen to, I think this is a fascinating story. I don't think it would make sense to put everyone in houses with new clothes for example, if that's not the way they were, so what exactly do you do to tell a story of a tribe like this? Again, not saying everything is accurate, but for my argument, I am assuming it is. I think they did do the appropriate research, as they did bring in someone who lived there (off and on?) for 20+ years to help with the story. I realize most of you haven't heard the episode, so it's tough to answer, but what would you do instead that would not be offensive?

[Blitz]

A fully automatic assault rifle is modified. Assault rifles are generally either one shot or 3 bursts. A machine gun is of course limited to how much ammunition the soldier or what ever it is mounted on can carry and how fast it heats up, but in simple word a machine gun is unlimited by fire restrictions.

[DanP740]

And does this really matter in this context?

[jelly]

Hey Whitty, ask Blitz more questions about machine guns. I'm dying to know everything there is to know.

[Blitz]

Is that supposed to be sarcasm?