God's wrath??

[Jesus' Princess]

Thanks for the encouragement... I was really nervous hitting the submit button for fear it would start some kind of argument or something!

That was a wonderful post Bold4God, I really appreciated reading it. And you are so right, they can be (and are) such a blessing.

[Josef1004]

No, you have clearly stated that special need children are a judgement from God. Either own up to your twisted view or denounce it for the sick statement that it was.

I stated nothing of the kind. If it seems clear to you from what I stated that they are a judgement from God, that's your conclusion, not mine. I was just noting some observations. And I'll admit that God's judgements, mercy, grace, blessings, and so forth are sometimes twisted.

Or could it be that we are the ones who are twisted? The LORD once expressed through his prophet:

"My ways are not your ways neither my thoughts are your thoughts."

[Christian A.]

No, you have clearly stated that special need children are a judgement from God. Either own up to your twisted view or denounce it for the sick statement that it was.

I think what he was saying was that special needs children are viewed as a judgment or a hardship in today's society, so God may choose to use them because they are viewed as such. But, in reality, they are a great blessing, and the people who receive them just don't appreciate them for who they are.

[Marvin D.]

That was noticed by a friend of mine who is a teacher in the public school system. Isn't it neat how God can punish a society who think they can eliminate the "inferior" or "unfit", yet at the same time give untold joy to those who accept their special needs children as the gifts of God that they are?

I know so many special needs kids, and not once have I ever thought they were a punishment from God. How can something be a punishment when it teaches you so much, about how to love, and how to live a cheerful life in the midst of hard times?
Now I am not saying the parents of these kids do not struggle, because believe me they do, but I think the good parts, the good example and everything they have taught us as their family and friends outweighs the struggles.
Sorry if this really long message was out of place or off topic, but after reading some of the comments I just could not keep my feelings inside. Sorry if I offend anyone, I really have no intentions of doing so!

[John Chrysostom]

@Josef quote "Isn't it neat how God can punish a society" what punishment are you referring to here? How do you think God is punishing society?

[Josef1004]

I said "can".

[John Chrysostom]

So you don't think that special need children are God's punishment on our society?

[bookworm]

I’m very careful to analyze potentially polarizing statements like that before reacting to make sure I don’t misinterpret them, but that was definitely the message I got from his post as well. Let me rephrase it so we can see if that’s really what he meant, or if he just used a poor choice of words. This is how I understood his statement:

I'm not going to say anything dogmatically, but I will say that soon after down's syndrome children started being killed off through abortion, the problem of autism cropped up. And that's something that we're not even close to understanding.

That was noticed by a friend of mine who is a teacher in the public school system. Isn't it neat how God can punish a society who think they can eliminate the "inferior" or "unfit", yet at the same time give untold joy to those who accept their special needs children as the gifts of God that they are?

‘Abortion was used to try to eliminate down's syndrome children, then autism children started becoming prevalent. This indicates that God turned the tables on the abortionists’ plans to eliminate special needs people, because now there’s a new ‘inferior’, in their view, person to deal with, but it didn’t phase the pro-life people who accept special needs children and see them as a gift from God because to them they are still just as much a joy as any child is.’

[John Chrysostom]

So in your view God "turned the tables" by creating more special need children?

[Christian A.]

Yeah. That's what I thought Josef was saying the whole time. The unsaved, who are ungrateful for what God gives them, think that they can get rid of the babies they view as problems. But God responds by giving them more blessings in autistic children, but they view those as inconvenient as well. So it kind of goes both ways. In a way, God is judging them by giving them children that they don't like; but the children themselves are a great blessing. They're just viewed as a curse. Does that make sense...?

[bookworm]

So in your view God "turned the tables" by creating more special need children?

If that was directed at me, be clear that I was paraphrasing the message I interpreted from Josef’s post, nothing I said there reflects my personal views.

[John Chrysostom]

No that really doesn't make sense to me. I don't think we can ascribe a motive to why some children have special needs and doing so can only hurt children with special needs who are told they're God's judgment on our society. To me this is close to the prosperity gospel. If you are good God will give you good things but if you're bad then God will do bad things to you. Also your view would only make sense if unbelievers were the only ones with special need children but that's not the case.

@bookworm Ah, that was not immediately clear to me. Well then that is directed at Josef then.

[bookworm]

Yeah, I was attempting to state how I interpreted his post (the same way you have been) so he can clarify if that is indeed what he meant.

[Christian A.]

First of all, like bookworm, I was merely trying to expound what I thought Josef was trying to say. These aren't necessarily my personal beliefs.

Secondly, I don't think he said that all special needs kids are given for that reason--just the ones who are given to people who don't appreciate them.

[bookworm]

Yes, I think he’s trying to say that God gives everyone special needs children, and it’s a ‘blessing or curse’ depending on how they want to view them. To the abortionists it’s a curse because they’re trying to eliminate special needs people, and now here’s a new kind ‘imposed’ (their view) on them, but to Christians every child is a gift, so they don’t mind.

[John Chrysostom]

Well it has been unclear where your views end and your interpretation of Josef's views begin so maybe we should let him clarify his own points from now on.

In any event if that is truly what he is saying then I still say we can't ascribe motive to special need children. That is just not our place.

[Christian A.]

I still say we can't ascribe motive to special need children. That is just not our place.

Very true. We can't ever truly know why God does what He does, unless He has specifically told us in His Word, which in this case, He hasn't. I did think Josef had an interesting postulate, though.

[Sherlock]

Yeah, I'm not quite buying it. I don't think God creates children to "get back" at someone for having abhorrent views. I think such children are born, and either embraced or rejected by society, a situation which is society's issue to correct, not one of God's motivation in creating the child.

There are a lot of questions in life that don't always have clear answers, such as why children are allowed to suffer, why the guilty sometimes seemingly prosper at the expense of the innocent, etc. In the end, we are better off not trying to ascribe motives for the existence of these situations to God. They simply are, and our job is to accept and deal with difficult situations as best as we can. We don't know why some children are born with more challenges facing them, but the humane and decent thing to do as a society is to recognize that these children are no less deserving of humane treatment than children born without such physical or mental challenges.

[Josef1004]

So you don't think that special need children are God's punishment on our society?

I said "can". But to answer your question, the punishment would be the fact that any thoughts society might have to perfect the human race through science are once again confounded. God can and does confound the purposes of man sometimes. Take the tower of Babel episode for example: (Gen. 11)

Society, under the leadership of a man named Nimrod, it seems, had decided that they would apart from God unite and make themselves great. That was totally against God's plan, so God went down and confounded their languages. Could it be possible even young children had to suffer through that? I think it is very possible; families may have been separated. Yet through that you can see God's mercy, in that shortly following that separation we see the call of Abram, through whom all the families of the earth would be blessed. a Bottom line:
Sin turns blessings into curses; God's grace turns curses into blessings.

[John Chrysostom]

So in your opinion God has confounded societies attempt to perfect the human race by increasing the number of special need children? Could it just be that decreases in infant mortality has increased the amount of children with special needs being born?

And again I say, what purpose does it serve to identify, or to bring up the possibility that these children's condition is God attempting to teach us something?