Should Christians look different?

[Termite]

Just.. wear what normal people wear.

Are you trying to say for Christians to give in to what society wants us to wear? What they deem "normal" rather than being a witness to God.....

Was joking but I know a good amount of people would be saying such things or taking it that way.

First define 'normal' and it's safe to say most of the world isn't, so his point still stands.

[King Butter Turtle]

While it may be true that people with piercings and tattoos are sometimes more able to speak to other people with piercings and tattoos than other individuals, I don't think that Christians should be getting them/leaving them in or uncovered just so they can 'witness to more people'. God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, which means that he can use the empathy provided by similar body image to reach people, but if that person really is trying to live for Christ they should quickly drop the old appearance (and accompanying attitude) and dress more appropriately. Same goes for all other negative outward adornment.

But, what is it that's wrong with piercings? If they're bad, ya, get rid of them but, what about them is it that makes them something we should ditch?

It's the attitude behind it; as it stands now, in our society excessive piercings represents rebellion and general delinquency. Maybe someday it'll be more acceptable (at one point dying one's hair was unacceptable, but we do it all the time now), but as it stands now many people will perceive you in a less favorable light if 25% of your face is metallic.

But, what is that's inherently wrong with piercings? You were saying that they were "bad" (please correct me, if that's an inaccurate summation of what you were saying) but, people perceiving you differently doesn't make something bad, it's just a side-effect.

Yes, Christians should look different. I can't remember how many times my family and I have been stopped by someone at Walmart (or any other store) and ask us "Are you guys Christians?" We wear sleeves that are below the elbow and my sisters and mom always wear dresses. I'm so happy to be a witness for Christ, even through my clothes!

ya but... are you 'witnessing', or giving people the impression that Christians are some weird cult who have something against pants?

Who do you think is going to have an easier time converting people to Christianity? The guy with the tats and piercings whom people can relate to, or the conservative family who insist on wearing outdated clothing?

Absolutely!

Christians are rebels. Shouldn't we look a little... rebellious?

Wrong type of rebellion. We're supposed to be rebels in the sense that we go against the ways of the world. (Besides, all "rebels" get tattoos and piercings these days. Not very non-conforming. )

What are you talking about? What other kind of rebellion is there? Maybe you could provide an alternate definition but, I'm not aware of any rebels who aren't... 'rebellious'.

[Termite]

Rebellion, according to Merriam Webster Online:

1. An opposition to one in authority or dominance.
2. Open, armed, and usually unsuccessful defiance of or resistance to an established government.
b. An instance of such defiance or resistance.

So no, Christian shouldn't be 'rebellious'.

[Amethystic]

But, what is that's inherently wrong with piercings? You were saying that they were "bad" (please correct me, if that's an inaccurate summation of what you were saying) but, people perceiving you differently doesn't make something bad, it's just a side-effect.

Inherently wrong as in it's wrong under any circumstance and in any context? Not certain; but it's definitely inappropriate in our culture. You're being perceived negatively, and your motivation for getting the piercings is coming from a wrong attitude.

[King Butter Turtle]

Rebellion, according to Merriam Webster Online:

1. An opposition to one in authority or dominance.
2. Open, armed, and usually unsuccessful defiance of or resistance to an established government.
b. An instance of such defiance or resistance.

So no, Christian shouldn't be 'rebellious'.

While those are technically applicable, better definitions for this particular context are;

Rebellion - The action or process of resisting authority, control, or convention

Rebellious - defying or resisting some established authority, government, or tradition; insubordinate; inclined to rebel.

So, we're not really rebelling against a government but, rebellion can also be against societal norms, traditions and other authorities, which Christians should do. Being 'in the world but, not of it' means we shouldn't participate in the messed up ways of this world. Instead, we should show the world a new way- a different way that will seem totally strange and will get opposition. I.E. - people might say something along the lines of, "what was wrong with the way we always did it?" We will shine a light to the world and live out ideas that are different than (and sometimes the direct opposite of) convention. Thus, rebellion.

But, what is that's inherently wrong with piercings? You were saying that they were "bad" (please correct me, if that's an inaccurate summation of what you were saying) but, people perceiving you differently doesn't make something bad, it's just a side-effect.

Inherently wrong as in it's wrong under any circumstance and in any context? Not certain; but it's definitely inappropriate in our culture. You're being perceived negatively, and your motivation for getting the piercings is coming from a wrong attitude.

What?! I don't know what 'motivation' you're referring to since I never specified one.

But, let me get try to get this straight;

1. Jon Doe gets a piercing.
2. Other people perceive Jon negatively because of his piercing.
3. Jon must have had the wrong attitude in being motivated to get the piercing, even though we have no idea what his attitude or motivation was.
4. Thus, Jon must have done a bad thing.

Huh? This is illogical, no?

[Amethystic]

3. Jon must have had the wrong attitude in being motivated to get the piercing, even though we have no idea what his attitude or motivation was.

*ahem* Having grown up in our society, Jon would have grown up associating such piercings with rebellion and other such attitudes; therefore, he is presenting himself a being in agreement and participation with that mindset, which is wrong. Or perhaps his main motivation is trying to conform to the ideals of his peers, which is also unhealthy.

On a more practical note, studies have shown that tattoos and piercings make it harder for you to get a job, so at least keep your tattoos in areas where they can be hidden and don't get any piercings that can't be removed on short notice. (i.e. Avoid those ear piercings that stretch your ears so wide that you could pass a golf ball through your earlobe. Something tells me a lot of folks will be getting reconstructive surgery done a few years from now.) Body markings are unwise, if not anything else.

[Steve]

I wouldn't say that tatoos and piercings are totally wrong. They just have bad ties...

[King Butter Turtle]

3. Jon must have had the wrong attitude in being motivated to get the piercing, even though we have no idea what his attitude or motivation was.

*ahem* Having grown up in our society, Jon would have grown up associating such piercings with rebellion and other such attitudes; therefore, he is presenting himself a being in agreement and participation with that mindset, which is wrong. Or perhaps his main motivation is trying to conform to the ideals of his peers, which is also unhealthy.

First of all, I just explained why we should be rebels but, you failed to address it.

Also, something being associated with a certain group or behavior doesn't mean that everyone who participates in that 'thing' is also connected with that group or behavior. This is called stereotyping! Rap music is commonly associated with non-Christian ideas such as extramarital sex, urban violence and greed but, that doesn't mean it's wrong for Christians to rap (or listen to it). Just because they're participating in that style of music doesn't mean they're participating in all that it's perceived as because they have a different motivation for doing it. The same concept is applicable to piercings and tattoos.

On a more practical note, studies have shown that tattoos and piercings make it harder for you to get a job, so at least keep your tattoos in areas where they can be hidden and don't get any piercings that can't be removed on short notice. (i.e. Avoid those ear piercings that stretch your ears so wide that you could pass a golf ball through your earlobe. Something tells me a lot of folks will be getting reconstructive surgery done a few years from now.) Body markings are unwise, if not anything else.

I plan to get several very visible tattoos on my forearms and hands. Three points;

1. If someone doesn't want to hire me because I have 'Jesus' tattooed on my arm, I really don't want to work for him.

2. We should never find our identity in an occupation or a specific job. You should make major life decisions in an attempt to best serve God- not to avoid offending a potential employer far in the future.

3. There is such a thing as tattoo concealer. (Well, I guess, for a job interview, that wouldn't really work but, for weddings or whatever...)

[Amethystic]

Hmmm... it's clear that we both have very different opinions on this matter, and neither of us plan on changing our views any time soon. So I'll make this my last post for now.

In some ways we should be "rebels", in a sense, but not the types of rebels who are tattooed from head to toe with faces full of metal--that's not non-conformity, that's just another worldly mindset. It's being a conforming non-conformist, so to speak. We should be rebels in the sense that we reject what the world is telling us is right or acceptable, and follow God's Word even if it means being rejected by other people--including other Christians, in some cases.

Secondly, I believe that at least some Christian rap has negative attitudes behind it. Just because someone slaps an inspirational label on it, doesn't mean it's spiritually uplifting. So I say proceed with caution.

And for your three points:

1. True enough, but you also don't want to come off as a religious flake. My dad's a very sincere Christian, but he doesn't have to wear 'I Jesus' t-shirts or anything to make his point. He just lives his life according to the Bible, works hard to please his employers, and sometimes he has the chance to minister to people. Subtlety is often the best approach to showing Jesus at the workplace.

2. You also shouldn't find your identity in whatever you mark your body with, whether it has a Christian meaning or not. And as for, "You should make major life decisions in an attempt to best serve God- not to avoid offending a potential employer far in the future," I say that it's unwise to do things without taking into consideration what effects they may have on your future. You save money up instead of spending it on video games so that you can afford to go to college, you practice your table manners at home so people don't think you're a slob, and you avoid messing up your body with unsightly tattoos and piercings so that you don't look like a thug at your first job interview. Besides, it's highly debatable whether or not tattooing 'Jesus' on your arm constitutes best-serving God.

3. It's still better not to get the tats in the first place. Besides, a few decades from now, those tattoos are going to look pretty dang ugly...

Okay, I'm done for now. Feel free to continue discussing without me.

[rickyderocher]

2 Corinthians 6:17 - "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,"

[Termite]

...so is makeup unclean?

Please expound. I'm interested. Where do you draw the line? How do you decide what's 'clean' and what isn't?

[The Top Crusader]

Do not dress yourself in a trash bag.

[Helovesus]

Do not dress yourself in a trash bag.

Dangggg ittttt. Just what I was planning on wearing today xD =P



Honesty though guys. If you are taking people this way... then... well.. you've got some problems and need to consult the Lord.


I would like to say that I'm really close with God right now.... anddddddd I don't see a problem with tattoos and piercings. I've prayed about it and still see nothing wrong with it. I know many people that are close to him and they have tattoos or piercings or both

I honestly think that we need to be open to being like other people, reaching out to them. I also think there are some things that really don't matter =P

[Amethystic]

I would like to say that I'm really close with God right now.... anddddddd I don't see a problem with tattoos and piercings. I've prayed about it and still see nothing wrong with it. I know many people that are close to him and they have tattoos or piercings or both

Well I would like to say I'm really close with God right now... anddddddd I do see a problem with tattoos and piercings. You can't play the close-to-God card when you're having a discussion about morality; after all, isn't everyone here speaking from their own 'godly' beliefs?



(Grr, and I said I wouldn't comment on this again. Oh well.)

[rickyderocher]

Leviticus 19:28 - "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD."

1 Corinthians 6:19 - "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 - "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? (17) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

[bookworm]

Leviticus 19:28 - "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD."

—

Do you have bacon for breakfast?

[rickyderocher]

No, I didn't - but the New Testament says that the Health Laws of the OT have been done away with - "Arise Peter and eat..."

But that does not mean that all the Old Testament laws or the principles behind them have been done away with completely. There are certain examples of sexual perversion that are declared wrong in the OT but are not mentioned in the NT - however all would agree that those perversions mentioned are still wrong just because the NT doesn't mentioned them.

"Some people object to using Old Testament scripture as a reference to tattoos since the New Testament doesn't speak of these things. However, in the New Testament we are even called to a higher law. We are to have God's laws written in our hearts. When we remain close to the Lord and obey Him, He can direct us in things that are not good for us. For example although the Bible does not say, "Thou shalt not smoke" or "Drug addiction is bad for you;" we know that these things are destructive to the human body. In the New Testament, we are told to glorify God in our bodies. This would include not marring our bodies with tattoos, as the principles in the Bible clearly tell us it is wrong to defile our bodies."

http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=230

"We know already what Lev. 19:28 says. But people use that to say, “But that’s in the OLD Testament! What about the New?” Well, do you know that Lev. 19:29 says not to prostitute your daughter; yet it says nothing in the New Testament about that, making it okay to prostitute your child? I think not! These moral laws are timeless and are as applicable now as then. Lev. 19:28 indicates that we are to not print ANY marks on us. Period. Lev. 19:26-28 is a condemnation of assorted pagan, witchcraft and heathen practices, of which tattooing is clearly one of them. Every commentary written on Lev. 19:28 says that tattooing comes from pagan origins."

http://www.raptureready.com/featured/sc ... attoo.html

[Termite]

...So, a guy who works at my church defiled his body with "Jesus Christ" tatooed between his two arms?

[Amethystic]

The problem with scriptural defenses is that everything is so open to interpretation. Everybody has their own opinion over what the Bible says, and short of guidance from the Holy Spirit (which happens, but as often as it should, sadly) we will never fully comprehend it. One can't understand something spiritual with a non-spiritual mind, but people try to do it anyways. Hence the varying opinions.

[Helovesus]

I would like to say that I'm really close with God right now.... anddddddd I don't see a problem with tattoos and piercings. I've prayed about it and still see nothing wrong with it. I know many people that are close to him and they have tattoos or piercings or both

Well I would like to say I'm really close with God right now... anddddddd I do see a problem with tattoos and piercings. You can't play the close-to-God card when you're having a discussion about morality; after all, isn't everyone here speaking from their own 'godly' beliefs?

I'm just saying. I don't see a problem with it. If you feel its not okay then fine =P not my deal.


Honestly guys I don't think we're going to change each others opinions, I'm most likely going to get a tattoo or a piercing, and I don't think you guys will change my opinion. =P