Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus (video)
I'd define it as a group of people who are basically like-minded and share the same ideals/teachings/doctrine, and, with some kind of Higher Power, seek to follow the teachings they have. That is why I couldn't exactly agree with the fact Jesus had His own religion.
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What part of that definition does Jesus not fulfill?
I don't think that Jesus had a "religion" himself, per se. To a degree, he might have brought religion to Earth, but he himself didn't have a religion he used in Heaven. I think when he said, "It is finished," he was finishing what was basically an extreme religion of sacrificing, and started something that was more of a relationship with God. Yes, it still was a religion, but it was more of a relationship.
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Ahh, I would pretty much agree with that. I guess I would more freely equate the Church with religion and say that since Christ is the head of the Church there is religion in Heaven in that sense but yes a relationship with God is the focus of the Church.
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This makes so much sense, thanks.Gaius wrote:I don't think that Jesus had a "religion" himself, per se. To a degree, he might have brought religion to Earth, but he himself didn't have a religion he used in Heaven. I think when he said, "It is finished," he was finishing what was basically an extreme religion of sacrificing, and started something that was more of a relationship with God. Yes, it still was a religion, but it was more of a relationship.
Now expecting your very own video?
SnC Forever. Miss you still.
You're welcome? ;PThe Kings Daughter wrote:This makes so much sense, thanks.Gaius wrote:I don't think that Jesus had a "religion" himself, per se. To a degree, he might have brought religion to Earth, but he himself didn't have a religion he used in Heaven. I think when he said, "It is finished," he was finishing what was basically an extreme religion of sacrificing, and started something that was more of a relationship with God. Yes, it still was a religion, but it was more of a relationship.
Now expecting your very own video?
I am?
Exactly. Both videos didn't do a good enough job of explaining religion.Ayn Rand wrote:Ahh, I would pretty much agree with that. I guess I would more freely equate the Church with religion and say that since Christ is the head of the Church there is religion in Heaven in that sense but yes a relationship with God is the focus of the Church.
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I like the message, but the guy isn't the greatest poet. He's not very expressive. Of course, I'm not an expert on spoken word and such, but the guy just sort of annoyed me.
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Yeah I've never gotten the idea behind spoken word, it does seem kind of odd.
What about the message appealed to you?
What about the message appealed to you?
Well, I do like spoken word, but it requires a LOT of expression and emotion to really pull it off. The guy just didn't seem that into it.
I think the message was definitely relevant to today. Lots of people just reject Christianity as another hypocritical religion, and we're not going to fix that by just preaching hellfire and damnation.
I know it seems like an overpreached topic and all, but I bet we'd all be surprised how many people have no idea just what the heck Jesus is all about. And part of the reason is people are just so turned off by the word, "Christianity." So we need to get over Christianity and start with Jesus. And that's what the movie is really about.
And no, Jesus didn't have a religion. You realize how silly that is. The whole purpose of religion TODAY is to achieve some sort of fulfillment. Jesus didn't come to give us another doctrine of fulfillment; he came to fulfill. (I do understand that Christianity is to some extent a religion, but not according to the modern understanding of the word.)
edit: Uh...that wasn't iambic pentameter. That wasn't poetry. It was spoken word (for the most part. The rhymes annoyed me a little).
Also, here's a quote I found by the guy: “In my context, I’m in Seattle — religion, in shorthand, is defined as legalism, self-righteousness, self-justification,” he explained. “Once I put the video out, I realized a lot of people in the nation don’t define it as that.”
He went on to further clarify his stance, saying, “Religion as the institution and as the church — as Jesus’ bride — that is God’s plan A and there is no plan B. So I don’t want to abolish that. I don’t want to turn from that. And that’s where God is manifest.”
I think the message was definitely relevant to today. Lots of people just reject Christianity as another hypocritical religion, and we're not going to fix that by just preaching hellfire and damnation.
I know it seems like an overpreached topic and all, but I bet we'd all be surprised how many people have no idea just what the heck Jesus is all about. And part of the reason is people are just so turned off by the word, "Christianity." So we need to get over Christianity and start with Jesus. And that's what the movie is really about.
And no, Jesus didn't have a religion. You realize how silly that is. The whole purpose of religion TODAY is to achieve some sort of fulfillment. Jesus didn't come to give us another doctrine of fulfillment; he came to fulfill. (I do understand that Christianity is to some extent a religion, but not according to the modern understanding of the word.)
edit: Uh...that wasn't iambic pentameter. That wasn't poetry. It was spoken word (for the most part. The rhymes annoyed me a little).
Also, here's a quote I found by the guy: “In my context, I’m in Seattle — religion, in shorthand, is defined as legalism, self-righteousness, self-justification,” he explained. “Once I put the video out, I realized a lot of people in the nation don’t define it as that.”
He went on to further clarify his stance, saying, “Religion as the institution and as the church — as Jesus’ bride — that is God’s plan A and there is no plan B. So I don’t want to abolish that. I don’t want to turn from that. And that’s where God is manifest.”
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I felt too that the rhymes were a bit off at times.
Yeah I agree with his second definition of religion but I in no way get that definition from his video. I felt like he was saying that any religion, defined as Gaius and I did, even the Church is so hypocritical that it is only as individuals that we can approach God and I disagree with that as it is very individualistic.
Yeah I agree with his second definition of religion but I in no way get that definition from his video. I felt like he was saying that any religion, defined as Gaius and I did, even the Church is so hypocritical that it is only as individuals that we can approach God and I disagree with that as it is very individualistic.
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Jesus definitely had a religon and that religon was Judaism. He did not come to free us from the Law, but to make it stricter. Check out Matthew 5:28. The laws of religon have not be loosened and made void, but have been tightened.ric wrote: And no, Jesus didn't have a religion.
I believe it was Ayn Rand who said there is still a lot of doing to do and I couldn't agree more.
So if you look at a woman lustfully, you should be stoned in the streets. But let's not get into that.Over the Rainbow wrote:Jesus definitely had a religon and that religon was Judaism. He did not come to free us from the Law, but to make it stricter. Check out Matthew 5:28. The laws of religon have not be loosened and made void, but have been tightened.ric wrote: And no, Jesus didn't have a religion.
How could Jesus 'have' a religion? He believed in himself as the only way to salvation and he followed himself? Jesus is God. Why would He need a religion? The whole thing is just silly. You can say that Jesus taught Judaism, although I don't agree with that, but don't say that Jesus was a Jew.
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Ummm how was Jesus not a Jew? A large part of His incarnation was that He fulfill the law of the Jews by coming and submitting to the law, hence why He was circumcised and lived in accordance with the law, not the legalism of the Pharisees but the law of Moses.
Now you say Jesus didn't have a religion but are you saying that even if we define religion as "the institution and as the church — as Jesus’ bride"?
Now you say Jesus didn't have a religion but are you saying that even if we define religion as "the institution and as the church — as Jesus’ bride"?
Actually, it's more accurate to say that he fulfilled the law. He freed us from the penalties of being bound to the law.Over the Rainbow wrote:Jesus definitely had a religon and that religon was Judaism. He did not come to free us from the Law, but to make it stricter.ric wrote: And no, Jesus didn't have a religion.
You're not using the correct definitions for 'religion' and 'Judaism'. What I think Christians often fail to remember is that the Jews were God's chosen people, they're still God's chosen people, and through them God's plan will ultimately be fulfilled. Jesus was more than simply a Jew... he was the perfect Jew. Jesus didn't simply come to earth to invent Christianity and then try to convert people from Judaism. Everything he did and taught was in direct correlation with the Hebrew law. Christianity as we know it was invented by the church at a later time. Jesus' priority was to fulfill the Jewish law and to get the Jews back on the right track, which included spreading the good news of God's Kingdom to all peoples. But it all started with the Jews, and the Jews are the priority.ric wrote:How could Jesus 'have' a religion? He believed in himself as the only way to salvation and he followed himself? Jesus is God. Why would He need a religion? The whole thing is just silly. You can say that Jesus taught Judaism, although I don't agree with that, but don't say that Jesus was a Jew.
Fallacy of false continuum. // bookworm
Any cupcake can be made holy through being baptized in the name of the Butter, the Vanilla and the Powdered Sugar. // Kait
Any cupcake can be made holy through being baptized in the name of the Butter, the Vanilla and the Powdered Sugar. // Kait
Jelly wrote:Actually, it's more accurate to say that he fulfilled the law.
Yes, I agree with all of this. We're just using terms in different ways. My point is, giving Jesus titles is just trying to box him in. Jesus is Jesus. Yes, he fulfilled Judaism, but Judaism was a mere foreshadowing of what was to come. Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. Not Christianity as a religion, but Christianity: The practice of following Christ. And that's why it would also be silly to call Jesus a Christian. Calling him 'the perfect Jew' works I guess, but it still seems needless and circumscribing.Jelly wrote:Actually, it's more accurate to say that he fulfilled the law. He freed us from the penalties of being bound to the law.Over the Rainbow wrote:Jesus definitely had a religon and that religon was Judaism. He did not come to free us from the Law, but to make it stricter.ric wrote: And no, Jesus didn't have a religion.
You're not using the correct definitions for 'religion' and 'Judaism'. What I think Christians often fail to remember is that the Jews were God's chosen people, they're still God's chosen people, and through them God's plan will ultimately be fulfilled. Jesus was more than simply a Jew... he was the perfect Jew. Jesus didn't simply come to earth to invent Christianity and then try to convert people from Judaism. Everything he did and taught was in direct correlation with the Hebrew law. Christianity as we know it was invented by the church at a later time. Jesus' priority was to fulfill the Jewish law and to get the Jews back on the right track, which included spreading the good news of God's Kingdom to all peoples. But it all started with the Jews, and the Jews are the priority.ric wrote:How could Jesus 'have' a religion? He believed in himself as the only way to salvation and he followed himself? Jesus is God. Why would He need a religion? The whole thing is just silly. You can say that Jesus taught Judaism, although I don't agree with that, but don't say that Jesus was a Jew.
The logic seems quite obvious to me, but whatever. It's really not that big of a deal.
No it wasn't. Judaism IS God's master plan.ric wrote:Yes, he fulfilled Judaism, but Judaism was a mere foreshadowing of what was to come.
Hardly! Jesus as the perfect Jew was his identity. It's not just something 'that works'; the entire definition of Christ was wrapped up in his identification as a Jew.ric wrote:Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. Not Christianity as a religion, but Christianity: The practice of following Christ. And that's why it would also be silly to call Jesus a Christian. Calling him 'the perfect Jew' works I guess, but it still seems needless and circumscribing.
We, as contemporary Christians, seem to have this desire to simplify things to the extreme. "Man, screw religion, I'm just into JESUS, man." I feel like this attitude has been taken too far, since it's caused us to lose sight of the full fulfilment and absolute glory of Christ's purpose. Jesus needs to be more than "my homeboy"; he needs to be understood and recognized as the absolute climax of God's master plan for humanity. And yes, religion is essential to that plan. If you don't like the word 'religion', that's fine, but don't dismiss the entire Jewish law merely because you may not understand it.
It's popular to act like you don't care about religion because our culture doesn't care about religion. But is our goal to be popular with culture?
Fallacy of false continuum. // bookworm
Any cupcake can be made holy through being baptized in the name of the Butter, the Vanilla and the Powdered Sugar. // Kait
Any cupcake can be made holy through being baptized in the name of the Butter, the Vanilla and the Powdered Sugar. // Kait
I'm not in any way arguing that because I don't think Jesus was a Jew we should dismiss the entire Jewish law. I never said anything even remotely to that effect. But while we're on the topic, if we haven't dismissed Jewish law, what exactly have we done with it? (This is a sincere question, not just one for argument's sake.)Jelly wrote: If you don't like the word 'religion', that's fine, but don't dismiss the entire Jewish law merely because you may not understand it.
Exactly. That's why I hesitate to say he was a Jew. Jesus existed before Judaism was ever conceived. Jesus is the base of Judaism. God wasn't just like "Yo Jesus, you wanna go down and die on a cross? I'm thinkin that would really work with the whole Judaism thing I've got goin." No, Judaism was just a stepping stone (a VERY ESSENTIAL STEPPING STONE THAT IS STILL RELEVANT TODAY) to God's ultimate plan centered on Jesus. And you can call that ultimate plan the fulfilled Judaism, in fact, it totally makes sense. It just seems slightly confusing to me, but whatever.Jelly wrote:he needs to be understood and recognized as the absolute climax of God's master plan for humanity.
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To me denying that Jesus is Jewish is awfully close to denying His human nature. He was born of Mary, a Jew, hence He is Jewish to deny He is Jewish seems to deny the virgin birth.
Yes, as a human his race was Jewish. And, as Jelly said, he was the perfect Jew, or I would prefer the ultimate Jew. So, yes, Jesus was a Jew. There we go.