Football Pool III

[American Eagle]

The Lions and Michigan State have had so many games blown by a bad call against them, so this one actually feels good.

That’s what I keep hearing from people trying to defend it. But that’s ridiculous. The answer to that is to have the officials stop making bad calls against anybody, not to start letting more people get away with them!

In this case, it's just humor error. None of the refs saw the facemask. Holding calls go missed almost every single play. If it was called, the game wouldn't have been a Viking victory; the Lions could've easily stopped them on the next play. Life goes on.

[bookworm]

If it was called, the game wouldn't have been a Viking victory; the Lions could've easily stopped them on the next play.

It wouldn’t have been victory, they could have stopped them?
That could just as well be it could have been a victory, they could have not stopped them.
We’ll never know.

[Laura Ingalls]

The Lions are a dirty playing team.

Did you figure that out just now? Or was it after Suh’s ejection against the Packers? Or their three personal fouls against the Saints?

All of the above.

It's not like I've kept up with football before this year...but now that I am - they're dirty.

[bookworm]

They’re either dirty or just extremely stupid. All three of those fouls in the Saints game were just completely unnecessary and probably a result of simply being undisciplined.

[American Eagle]

If it was called, the game wouldn't have been a Viking victory; the Lions could've easily stopped them on the next play.

It wouldn’t have been victory, they could have stopped them?
That could just as well be it could have been a victory, they could have not stopped them.
We’ll never know.

Over the past few years, there's so many times when my football heart has been crushed by similar game-wrecking calls.... a no-call facemask against a 2-10 team that didn't truly decide the game is... trivial.

The Detroit Lions and my Michigan State Spartans have been considered awful since I became a fan of the two. The Lions have never made the playoffs (I began liking them in 2004), and Michigan State lost to our rival Michigan for 7 straight years. Now that we're both winning games, headed for the playoffs, playing in the Big Ten Championship game, I like the "dirty" tag that both teams have.

[Ryder]

Congratulations to Stop Wooton Around for winning week 14's football pool!!!

So after all of the tallying is done, SWA takes the win with 13 games correct! Now, if anyone is going to go back over all of the games, you will find that SWA missed one game and CD33 missed two. Seeing as SWA's missed game was CLE @ PIT , I decided to give him that one. CD33 missed ATL @ CAR and IND @ BAL so I game him one of the two correct. In the future, please make sure you have gone on all of your games!
Here are the final results...

SWA - 13 correct (SEA)

KF - 12 correct (SEA)

Top - 12 correct (SEA)

AE - 11 correct

CD33 - 11 correct

Ryder - 11 correct

Bookworm - 10 correct

[bookworm]

a no-call facemask against a 2-10 team that didn't truly decide the game is... trivial.

That’s just it, you don’t know if it decided the game!
If it didn’t, then you’re absolutely right. But they were on the one yard line, there’s no reason to assume they definitely would not have scored. And if they had then it’s a different outcome.

[American Eagle]

a no-call facemask against a 2-10 team that didn't truly decide the game is... trivial.

That’s just it, you don’t know if it decided the game!
If it didn’t, then you’re absolutely right. But they were on the one yard line, there’s no reason to assume they definitely would not have scored. And if they had then it’s a different outcome.

For fun's sake, let's do the opposite scenario: The refs see and call the facemark, get the ball back on the 1-yard line and score on the next play. The Vikings win the game. Instead of 2-11, they go to 3-10. Congrats, guys. You now drop about four spots in the draft.

If I was in the Vikings' front office, I'd be thanking God that the refs didn't notice the grab.

[Knight Fisher]

Uh, that call could have gigantic effect on two teams seasons. The Lions and The Bears. If the Lions had lost that game the 2 of them would be tied in the wildcard. And the Bears would have the tie-breaker because of divisional record. Huge.

[American Eagle]

I know. In all honesty, the facemask should've been called, but wasn't. That's what happens when you have human referees, and not digital robots with hundreds of cameras set around the stadium to see and enforce every rule. It's just the way it is.

[bookworm]

I completely understand that they can’t catch everything in real time, but they should make things like this reviewable then. Why have all the cameras if you aren’t going to use them?

[American Eagle]

So every play should be stopped and carefully reviewed for penalties? Why then would you even need refs?

[bookworm]

You wouldn’t. But I didn’t say every play, I said plays like this. And I didn’t say stop and review it, I said make it reviewable. In this case the QB would have told the coach ‘Hey my head was pulled’ and the coach would have made them take a look at it.
More penalties just need to be allowed to be called after discussion like intentional grounding is. Then there isn’t the problem of needing to see everything in real time and having to call it that very instant.

[American Eagle]

You wouldn’t. But I didn’t say every play, I said plays like this. And I didn’t say stop and review it, I said make it reviewable. In this case the QB would have told the coach ‘Hey my head was pulled’ and the coach would have made them take a look at it.

So the player has to know something was done wrong against him, he would have to go tell his coach, the coach would have to tell someone in the booth to look at it, and then a call would be made. My friend, that is illogical and would never happen.

More penalties just need to be allowed to be called after discussion like intentional grounding is. Then there isn’t the problem of needing to see everything in real time and having to call it that very instant.

I disagree. I think too many penalties are called. Defensive backs are no longer allowed to be physical. If you even touch the receiver, pass interference is called (the same goes with offensive pass interference). If you even touch a guys' shoulder pads, it's a horsecollar tackle. If you even touch a QB without the ball presently in his hands, it's roughing the passer. The NFL is going so incredibly soft.

(They're calling the right amount of false starts and helmet-to-helmet hits, though. Those should not be tolerated.)

The underlying point is this: Joe Webb didn't protect the football. Shawn Levy reached and knocked the ball out of his hands (0:44) before touching his helmet. The facemask didn't effect the play of the game in any way, and I honestly don't think it should've been called. You can complain all you want, but this was just a missed call that didn't even effect the outcome of the game. Move on.

[Knight Fisher]

Of course you would be on the complete opposite side if say a Calvin Johnson catch was ruled incomplete with no time left.

[bookworm]

My friend, that is illogical and would never happen.

I fail to see how enforcing the rules is illogical. If the player were meant to be allowed to do that, it wouldn’t be a penalty.

If you even touch a guys' shoulder pads, it's a horsecollar tackle.

False. Horsecollar calls are quite rare because they are only called on what they should be, downward pulling at the back of the neck.

If you even touch a QB without the ball presently in his hands, it's roughing the passer.

Also false. This is propaganda spread by people who think football is becoming too protective. It’s very true that more things are now roughing the passer, but it is definitely not everything. I’ve seen plenty of huge hits on QBs this season that were called fair, and rightfully so.

They're calling the right amount of false starts and helmet-to-helmet hits, though.

This season I’ve seen more helmet to helmet hits that were not called than actual ones that were. (Meaning it was called helmet to helmet but replay showed it was actually a clean tackle.) This is further support that replay should be allowed in deciding major penalties. Not only does needing to make the call in real time leave open the possibility for missing calls, but also for making wrong calls just because something looks worse than it was.

this was just a missed call that didn't even effect the outcome of the game.

And once more, you cannot say whether it affected anything or not! You can say maybe it didn’t, you can even say it probably didn’t, but you cannot say it definitively did not.

I understand that replaying every play is not going to happen. That’s not what I’m advocating for. All I’m saying is there are ways to prevent things like this, people just don’t want to implement them.
Another option would be to have a system where if a play is being reviewed for another reason, a genuine reason under current rules, and they see something blatant like that then they are allowed to call it after the fact.

What’s illogical is not to see a problem with the current system; what’s illogical is to say ‘Yes that’s clearly a penalty, we just can’t enforce it because we missed it at the exact second it happened’.

[American Eagle]

Edit: bookworm, you posted while I was writing, so I'm ignoring your post. You win, I guess.

Of course you would be on the complete opposite side if say a Calvin Johnson catch was ruled incomplete with no time left.

Complete vs. imcomplete does effect the outcome of the game. If, say, there was also a missed offsides call on that play, I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Thursday:
Jacksonville at Atlanta (Go Jacksonville. )
Saturday:
Dallas at Tampa Bay (Go Tampa, though.)
Sunday:
Carolina at Houston (This is a very interesting game. Both rookie QBs.)
Washington at NY Giants (Go Washington...)
Miami at Buffalo
Seattle at Chicago
New Orleans at Minnesota (Lock?)
Cincinnati at St. Louis
Tennessee at Indianapolis
Green Bay at Kansas City
Detroit at Oakland (With Suh back, I'm thinking we can pressure Palmer into a lot of interceptions.)
New England at Denver (I think New England is the clear favorite, but I'm feeling gutsy. Let's go, Broncos.)
NY Jets at Philadelphia
Cleveland at Arizona
Baltimore at San Diego
Monday:
Pittsburgh at San Francisco

[Steehl]

Thursday:
Jacksonville at Atlanta... the rest of my picks will follow.

[Knight Fisher]

Thursday:
Jacksonville at Atlanta (I must agree with AE. But it ain't happening.)
Saturday:
Dallas at Tampa Bay (Why did you not sign Marion Barber Jerry Jones? WHY?)
Sunday:
Carolina at Houston
Washington at NY Giants
Miami at Buffalo
Seattle at Chicago (Why did you sign Marion Barber Jerry Angelo? WHY?)
New Orleans at Minnesota
Cincinnati at St. Louis
Tennessee at Indianapolis
Green Bay at Kansas City
Detroit at Oakland
New England at Denver (You must pay for your crimes Timmy!)
NY Jets at Philadelphia
Cleveland at Arizona
Baltimore at San Diego
Monday:
Pittsburgh at San Francisco

[Jehoshaphat]

Jacksonville at Atlanta
Saturday:
Dallas at Tampa Bay
Sunday:
Carolina at Houston
Washington at NY Giants
Miami at Buffalo
Seattle at Chicago
New Orleans at Minnesota
Cincinnati at St. Louis
Tennessee at Indianapolis
Green Bay at Kansas City
Detroit at Oakland
New England at Denver
NY Jets at Philadelphia
Cleveland at Arizona
Baltimore at San Diego
Monday:
Pittsburgh at San Francisco