Rock: Wicked, or suitable for Christians.

[DanP740]

You guys have to admit that rock isn't exactly worshipful.

We've been over this.

[American Eagle]

(hears noise, sees angry stampeding crowd, runs away, AAAAUUUUGGGGHHH!!!!!!!)

Hahaha.

One of my best friends is an avid supporter of Christian rock music. We had a long discussion about this sort of thing (we actually only touched on the subject of music once or twice, but the entire discussion was related). Basically, here's our conclusion. I believe rock music is slightly less than holy. I do not think it is based in God's Word; alternatively, I think it was founded in roots of sinfulness and the rebellion of the mid-Twentieth century. Therefore, it is not something I want to be part of.

I'm choosing to avoid the genre. I'm choosing, in essence, to create an extra-Biblical standard. Is this a bad standard to have? Certainly not. I'm avoiding something that can potentially have a negative impact on my life. Now, is it my job to hold other Christians to the standard I've created? No, it's not. It is not my responsibility to tell any of you what to do. Unless God also convicts you of it, none of you are necessarily sinning.

On a side note, if one does decide to avoid rock music, it can be a sin to give in. The Holy Spirit knows how to convict when you're breaking a personal conviction. One more thing. If you are around people who choose not to listen to rock, please try to avoid playing it around them (like it talks about in Romans 14:13).

[SoccerLOTR]

You guys have to admit that rock isn't exactly worshipful. Especially artists like Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, and Hannah Montana. And listening to CCM can lead to those kinds of groups. (hears noise, sees angry stampeding crowd, runs away, AAAAUUUUGGGGHHH!!!!!!!)

Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, and Hannah Montana aren't rock. Lady Gaga is more popish. Katy Perry is country. And Hannah Montana is more country/pop.

Katy Perry is pop too...really, all three are. But I get the theme of the argument and it seems to be against all forms of rock-type music--whether it be pop rock, soft rock, hard rock, or just rock, and even country.
I am confused though, at how my listening to tobyMac leads me to automatically like Lady Gaga...it's like saying watching Loony Tunes leads you to liking Family Guy...or saying that drinking grape juice makes you more likely to drink wine, which would thus lead you to like hard liquor...

[odysseyfan1]

You guys have to admit that rock isn't exactly worshipful.

We've been over this.

I know. Like I said I had just skimmed the topic so ignore my post.

-- 24 Mar 2011 09:11 pm --

You guys have to admit that rock isn't exactly worshipful. Especially artists like Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, and Hannah Montana. And listening to CCM can lead to those kinds of groups. (hears noise, sees angry stampeding crowd, runs away, AAAAUUUUGGGGHHH!!!!!!!)

Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, and Hannah Montana aren't rock. Lady Gaga is more popish. Katy Perry is country. And Hannah Montana is more country/pop.

Katy Perry is pop too...really, all three are. But I get the theme of the argument and it seems to be against all forms of rock-type music--whether it be pop rock, soft rock, hard rock, or just rock, and even country.
I am confused though, at how my listening to tobyMac leads me to automatically like Lady Gaga...it's like saying watching Loony Tunes leads you to liking Family Guy...or saying that drinking grape juice makes you more likely to drink wine, which would thus lead you to like hard liquor...

As I said CCM is a matter of personal conviction.

[jelly]

I am confused though, at how my listening to tobyMac leads me to automatically like Lady Gaga...it's like saying watching Loony Tunes leads you to liking Family Guy...or saying that drinking grape juice makes you more likely to drink wine, which would thus lead you to like hard liquor...

this.

Man, AE... I really wanted to buy your argument, because you worded it so well, but I simply can't. It seems completely and totally ridiculous to me. But eh, each to his own.

[ric]

Um, what about movies? It seems to me that lot of people don't just watch only Christian movies, but also secular movies. Regardless of whether movies have evil roots or not, there are TONS of movies out there that are certainly not pleasing to God. So...don't watch movies at all.

It seems a double standard to me.

Which is worse? Watching secular movies with swearing (be it a single misuse of God's name), or listening to music with lyrics praising God?

[American Eagle]

Do you have a conviction regarding movies, ric?

ClearPlay ftw.

[ric]

Do you have a conviction regarding movies, ric?

ClearPlay ftw.

Ya, I really need to get ClearPlay.

[Steve]

Basically, here's our conclusion. I believe rock music is slightly less than holy. I do not think it is based in God's Word; alternatively, I think it was founded in roots of sinfulness and the rebellion of the mid-Twentieth century. Therefore, it is not something I want to be part of.

Once again, somebody skimmed what I posted.

Rock's real, deep roots come from slave spirituals. Again. I will say: Rock music is obviously derived from blues. And blues comes from bluegrass. Now, here, I wish to stop and say that bluegrass is not just about riding horses and drinking whiskey. Most bluegrass is music used for worship. Such as, Hank Williams Sr.'s "I Saw the Light." Is that wrong? Uh-I don't think so. Bluegrass was derived from jazz. Now, here people get confused. They say," And jazz came from pagan tribal music." That isn't correct. Jazz came from slave spirituals!! Oh my word!! Do you see this!?!? The music that wanted to fight the system-the church-was created by the system! Ha ha ha! Eat that, Beatles! So in reality, rock came from slaves praising God!

[Dr. Watson]

Blues does not come from bluegrass. Blues was around in the 20's and 30's before bluegrass was "invented" in the 50's and 60's.


*exits*

[Steve]

Blues does not come from bluegrass. Blues was around in the 20's and 30's before bluegrass was "invented" in the 50's and 60's.


*exits*

Bluegrass came from the 1800s.

[American Eagle]

Steve, I'm not sure how much of your post is sarcasm.

Anyway, rock music may have been present in a little jazz or blues or what-not, but it exploded in America in the 50s and 60s (see here or here), through secular artists like Elvis and the Beatles. That was basically when rock went mainstream. Now, most musical genres include rock beats (i.e., pop rock, rap, R&B, etc.)

Perhaps my facts are slightly skewed, but it is widely known that rock arose largely in the mid-Twentieth century.

Jelly, you know I'm right.

ric, I avoided your double standard question intentionally. I do slightly agree, but that is too long of a discussion to get into.

[Dr. Watson]

Blues does not come from bluegrass. Blues was around in the 20's and 30's before bluegrass was "invented" in the 50's and 60's.


*exits*

Bluegrass came from the 1800s.

Not really--it was mainly the invention of Bill Monroe. Of course, "old-time" music, or American folk music and fiddle tunes had been around for a much longer time. But Bill Monroe took that genre, added his own twist to it, and bluegrass was born.

[Steve]

Blues does not come from bluegrass. Blues was around in the 20's and 30's before bluegrass was "invented" in the 50's and 60's.


*exits*

Bluegrass came from the 1800s.

Not really--it was mainly the invention of Bill Monroe. Of course, "old-time" music, or American folk music and fiddle tunes had been around for a much longer time. But Bill Monroe took that genre, added his own twist to it, and bluegrass was born.

Ahh. I see where you're coming from, now. I was kind of generalizing for space puropses.

[Kmap]

I recently recieved a PM from our own "iluvsns" asking about the new more "rocky" sounding songs we're doing on the Ceiling Fan. I'd like if you'd all give your opinions on this too. I'll enclose the conversations so far in a spoiler.

First I just wanted to point out that Garrett's thread and posts are his own opinion and don't necessarily represent the views or beliefs of Myself, The Ceiling Fan Podcast or Tadpole Media Group. For those any questions or concerns about our show, you can email us at info@ceilingfanpodcast.com

We apologize to iluvsns if your private conversation with Garrett was made public without your wanting it to and TCF does not make a habit of such things.

You're picking and choosing what you want to hear out of God's Word. Culturally, the cymbals and things were not used the way we think of percussion instruments today.

I agree, I think it is very important to look at our culture and be sure we are not misrepresenting Christ or hindering nonbelievers from hearing the gospel because we are not relevant. It is important to know what curtain things mean (words, gestures, T-shirts) before we go out into the world and embarrass ourselves. For example, I believe Christian media today is often known as "sub par." Yet, there was a time when Christian art was the pinnacle of quality and standard for artists. Today art comes in many new forms, music, podcasting, radio dramas, movies, tv. Things that they didn't have back in michelangelo and leonardo da vinci's day. Yet, is it any less important that us as Christians reclaim media and make it the best out there. I believe it is still important today and we will never reach the lost if we are not honorable and respectable people in our daily lives AND in the art we do.

That being said, you say it is culture that is defining the "holiness" of something. I say it is Christians who should be defining culture. The only people I've ever met who debate whether "rock" music is bad, are Christians. So it is only bad, because we keep saying it's bad. Why don't we stop running from it then, and step in and make it NOT bad. This sure isn't that case, when it comes to morality, of course. The bible lays out what is right and wrong, and I would agree that there are many bad things that "rock stars" do. I believe we should study the bible, stay away from those things we have been called as Christians to rise above and reclaim the culture. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water, is all I'm saying.

Well, you could possibly say that jazz comes from African tribal songs (which could be called evil) but the jazz of today is also heavily influenced by classical music and vice versa.

Metal music is very influenced by classical too. Africa isn't evil, let's not shut ourselves off from learning, because of our faith. I think Christians should strive to be smart and well educated. There is a lot to learn from studying other cultures, even their language, music, and religion. Knowing about these things doesn't mean we agree with them, but they can make us stronger in OUR faith. If we believe the truth, then we have nothing to fear. If we are seeking the TRUTH, we will always come back to it, because it's true.

In the end, I think we are all called to seek truth and we all come to and understanding of it at different times in our lives, as God shows them to us. Not everyone comes to Christ at the same age, but we can have grace on those who are still seeking, knowing that we were once the same way and God has grace on us. We continue to have grace on other believers who are learning truths about God and the bible because none of us have it all figured out. It's ok to discuss and debate these topics, that is what church and the body of Christ and fellowship is all about. It's how we learn. But the main thing is that we seek after God's truth, we have love towards others, and we extend grace on those who may not think the same way, knowing that we all need grace because none of us know EVERYTHING.

God has blessed me with the chance to do the podcasts that I do and to have a great team of guys, who are way more talented than me. If there is anyway I can be an encouragement to other believers and even nonbelievers by using the talents God has given me, I am honored to do so. Thanks to everyone who listens.


-Kevin

PS I know I am late in seeing this thread and I didn't read everything. I am sorry if I have repeated anyone or am a little off topic. lol. Have a great day everyone.

[ric]

Well, you could possibly say that jazz comes from African tribal songs (which could be called evil) but the jazz of today is also heavily influenced by classical music and vice versa.

Metal music is very influenced by classical too. Africa isn't evil, let's not shut ourselves off from learning, because of our faith. I think Christians should strive to be smart and well educated. There is a lot to learn from studying other cultures, even their language, music, and religion. Knowing about these things doesn't mean we agree with them, but they can make us stronger in OUR faith. If we believe the truth, then we have nothing to fear. If we are seeking the TRUTH, we will always come back to it, because it's true.

Actually, I am in agreement with your view on the subject. I was simply conceding the fact that some African tribal songs could be considered...eh...less than godly, but that certainly doesn't make rock music ungodly, no matter how deeply rooted in African tribal music it is.

[DanP740]

Metal music is very influenced by classical too.

Very true. Classical has many very-fast parts, and speed in a major part of metal music. On a website giving their opinion of who they think are the guitarists who can play fastest, it said something like "If a guitarist says his influences include Eddie Van Halen and Mozart, he's probably a metal guitarist".

[jelly]

Kevin just dominated this discussion.

Seriously though; he's absolutely right.