Ozon wrote:Guess Who! wrote:Do you (JED, DAM, any others who advocate the "abortion is murder" but "It's personal choice" argument) see a difference between "murder" in regards to abortion and "murder" in regards to say, a 20 year old mentally competent adult? Is there more than one kind of murder for you? Or do you believe all murder needs to be allowed, as "personal choice"? If there is somewhat of a difference between "murder" in the case of abortion and "murder" as commonly understood in the legal definitions of the USA, could you outline the exact differences of the two categories?
I do admit the position is somewhat confusing.
Thank you, Guess Who!.
Murder is murder is murder is murder. Murder is a sin. That is NOT a personal opinion. That comes straight from the Bible. In fact, because it seems some people here have forgotten, I will quote it for you:
Exodus 20:13 KJV wrote:Thou shalt not kill.
As far as I can tell that doesn't exclude babies and mentally ill people. And anyone else. The Bible doesn't say that it is a personal opinion, either.
So. Are you in or are you out?
Ozon, are you directing that "in or out" quote at me? Personally I don't consider abortion murder, I do not believe "personhood" is conferred at conception but only comes later, after the brain has some ability to "subjectively experience" the world. What differentiates a person from, say, a tree, is the former's ability to experience, and an embryo cannot. Once we get to the later stages of pregnancy, however, there is a good argument that the fetus does experience something, and that would be when I would have a moral problem in pursuing an abortion myself unless in the case of medical necessity. However, the case is still muddled by the fact that the fetus is living *inside* another person, whose rights still stand, and who should be allowed to make medical decisions regarding her body and personal decisions for what she wishes to use it for... I hope all women who want abortions can get them before the 8th week or so before there is any moral qualms, but this is a messy world and I'm more willing to cut people slack for inability to raise money, to transport themselves to a clinic, to find truthful information, talk things over with families, etc.
I would not consider abortion murder and truly have difficulty fathoming people who say they do... at the MOST it is negligent homicide or something, because murder requires the premeditated killing of another *person* with willful knowledge, and these women and their doctors (as well as me) do NOT consider the fetus a *person.* But... it's even odder the people who say abortion is murder but then ALSO say it should be legal. O.K... but are they talking a different kind of murder I haven't heard of before?