BBC's "Sherlock" Series

BlessedCheesemaker · Post by **BlessedCheesemaker** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:07 pm

You may have already seen this but here is Martin Freeman and Benedict Cumberbatch's video for the Sherlock panel at ComicCon. Cumberbatch even explains how he survived the fall

Amethystic · Post by **Amethystic** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:33 pm

I knew it!! That thing with the second monkey confirms all my theories!

Anna><> · Post by **Anna><>** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:43 pm

I want to know how or if the cabbage factors into his survival.
But yeah, the second monkey does explain a lot.

Wooton Z. Bassett · Post by **Wooton Z. Bassett** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:20 pm

Watched the second episode. Not as good as episode 1, but it's getting very exciting.

Shennifer · Post by **Shennifer** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:30 am

Amethystic wrote:I knew it!! That thing with the second monkey confirms all my theories!

But the cup of tea! that was definitely important wouldn't you say?

Amethystic · Post by **Amethystic** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:07 am

Shennifer wrote:
Amethystic wrote:I knew it!! That thing with the second monkey confirms all my theories!
But the cup of tea! that was definitely important wouldn't you say?

But that's why they had the big helicopter thing, right? Between that and the tea, it's so obvious what was going on the entire time.

Smaug the Dragon · Post by **Smaug the Dragon** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:01 am

Aw man. The next episode has been totally spoiled for me. Now that I'll be expecting the monkeys, the surprise is ruined.

ique · Post by **ique** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:22 pm

Haven't seen the series, but I reeeeally want to because Cumberbatch is incredible.

Post by **bookworm** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:09 pm

Wow, I didn’t like The Reichenbach Fall at all. Don’t get me wrong, it was a very clever story - very clever - but not as a Sherlock Holmes tale. Reichenbach is only supposed to be Sherlock’s end, not his downfall.

So as for whether there was the anticipated ‘emotional flailing’, that would depend on what I was supposed to flail over.

If it was the story, not so much. There wasn’t room for flailing as Sherlock was methodically taken down bit by bit, because I wasn’t open to it to affect me. I was frozen in a reaction of ‘this isn’t right’ so instead of getting more and more involved as things kept spiraling downward I just got more and more upset.

But if it was just over the very end

then my emotions did indeed flail, to an extent. Not excessively, because I sort of figured it was coming, but more along the lines of trying and failing to figure out what had really happened back there.

I do have to say though, that while the overall episode was disgraceful, in my opinion, for a Sherlock Holmes story, the climax, the final deadlock between Sherlock and Moriarty, was actually an impressively well conceived retelling of the intent behind the original story.

Arthur Conan Doyle never intended to write a definitive end to the ongoing rivalry between Holmes and Moriarty. His vision was that neither could ever get an overpowering upper hand, they were perpetually locked in their struggle, symbolic of the eternal battle between good and evil. However his publisher insisted he come up with an ultimate end. Doyle therefore wrote the resolution to The Final Problem somewhat out of spite. While technically complying with the mandate, he still kept his own vision intact. Neither rival won out, they were both killed off. The struggle remained unresolved.

In that respect, this episode did get one thing right.

That did impress me very much. I only wish the way they chose to lead up to it wasn’t so wrong.

Shennifer · Post by **Shennifer** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:38 pm

I'm sorry you were disappointed on the lead up to the end but I'm glad you didn't dislike all of it.

I was upset about how Moriarty was working to bring Sherlock down,
but at the end,

I haven't read the original Final Problem yet, so maybe when I do it'll change my opinion somewhat.

Post by **bookworm** » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:43 pm

Shennifer wrote:
However, what was also emotionally hard was seeing him lie to John about who he was and what was going on and not explain the truth.

Well yes of course, I 'flailed' over that because of the nature of the scene. He didn't have a choice, he had to play it that way. It was very tough. But that's my point. That scene never should have had to go that way in the first place, because the discrediting plot was out of line.

Shennifer · Post by **Shennifer** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:42 am

bookworm wrote:
Shennifer wrote:
However, what was also emotionally hard was seeing him lie to John about who he was and what was going on and not explain the truth.
Well yes of course, I 'flailed' over that because of the nature of the scene. He didn't have a choice, he had to play it that way. It was very tough. But that's my point. That scene never should have had to go that way in the first place, because the discrediting plot was out of line.

I gather that it was different in the Final Problem.

Did you like the how the rest of the episodes compared to their original predecessors? I think this is the only one you said you didn't like. And I'm curious as to your thoughts on the rest of them.

Termite · Post by **Termite** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:52 pm

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH OHMIGOSHOHMIGOSHOHMIGOSH EVERYONE WATCH THIS! (spoilers. you have been warned.

)

Shennifer · Post by **Shennifer** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:41 pm

Termite wrote:
This is my Moriarty theory... that Moriarty is not a person but an idea.

So he could very well be back again. *shrug*
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH OHMIGOSHOHMIGOSHOHMIGOSH EVERYONE WATCH THIS! (spoilers. you have been warned. )

SO. Perhaps his head is all bloody from hitting the ground too hard, and then Sherlock planted the gun? Hmm....

But...BUTWAITWHAT?

Post by **Musical Shutterbug** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:27 pm

Guys, I love that we can come up with theories for the show $\:D/$

Shennifer · Post by **Shennifer** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:48 am

Musical Shutterbug wrote:Guys, I love that we can come up with theories for the show $\:D/$

To quote tumblr, we are turning into Sherlock: deducing and analyzing

Termite · Post by **Termite** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:35 am

Well, about what Moffat said....

Rule number one: Moffat lies. And he says so himself in the quote in the yellow box. $\:D/$

Graces4you · Post by **Graces4you** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:18 am

November 24th is when Season 3 comes out!!! It cannot come fast enough. Catching fire 22nd, Dr. Who 23rd, Sherlock 24th. Thanksgiving break will be very very busy.

Termite · Post by **Termite** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:03 pm

AND ANOTHER CONSPIRACY THEORY.

Post by **bookworm** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:38 am

Shennifer wrote:I gather that it was different in the Final Problem.

Only entirely.
In the book there is no plot to discredit Holmes, Moriarty simply wants to kill him. Sherlock escapes successive assassins until he finally meets up with Moriarty himself, they fight on a cliff, and both go over.

Shennifer wrote:Did you like the how the rest of the episodes compared to their original predecessors? I think this is the only one you said you didn't like.

Indeed, while some of the past episodes I haven’t liked as much as others, this is the first I haven’t liked at all. As I said, it’s not an acceptable Holmes story, so it is impossible to compare to the others. I did say the story itself was extremely clever, so in style and plot it compared excellently; and if this were an episode in some generic detective series I would actually rank it near if not at the top. The story and development were exceptionally strong. But as a chapter in this series, unquestionably the worst. Simply shameful.

Shennifer wrote:And I'm curious as to your thoughts on the rest of them.

As Holmes stories? They were fine. Some, like Hounds, even great. I don’t care about them that way really, because they’re just passing cases, you can take or leave them. If they change some ideas to put their own spin on it, that’s up to them. But The Final Problem is a cornerstone story, an extreme liberty like destroying Sherlock Holmes’ reputation is totally out of line.

The Town of Odyssey

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