Caswin wrote:church wrote:But that's doesn't say whether the view is accurate or not. It says more to what Christians should be striving to overcome. Christians did recieve the command of go and teach the world.
The problem with
that is that Christians are as human as anybody else. It's impossible to reach everybody, and even if it weren't, it's impossible to reach those who are already dead. I think that it would be fair to say that they
can't accept Jesus because they've ever never heard of him or don't believe in him.
And then it follows that they die, they're damned, and they can't accept it then, either.
church wrote:I know several people who have done terrible things. What do we tell them? "I'm sorry, you're just too evil for God. There's no way for you into heaven. You're without hope."
You're the first in this thread to suggest it. You might metaphorically say the same thing to someone who was born in some obscure part of the world.
A lot, maybe even most, of the people in the world know the gospel message, and they have lots of ways of finding out more about Jesus if they have a desire. These people do not have a lack of information to work with. My definition of "saved," is based on the assumption that this is the kind of person we're talking about.
However, I agree that there are those who have never had the chance to hear the message of salvation.
For those people, I do believe the rules are a little different.
Luke 12:47-48
"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
(from New International Version)
For those people that have never been taught anything about the Bible in their whole lives, will be given grace some grace because of their ignorance. God know that they have not been told about the Law, the resurrection of Jesus, or any of the Bible's teachings, therefore I don't believe He will require the same specific desplay of faith from these people that He would require of someone who's heard the message of salvation all their life.
However, although these people might not have all the specifics, I don't think they are just off the hook. I'm sure that God has the ability to make Himself known in some way to those who have not been reach by missionaries. In fact, I believe that many of these methods of revelation are the same for all men.
Rom 1:20
20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
KJV
Eccl 3:15
1 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end
KJV
Rom 2:13-16
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
KJV
The same goes for those who were already dead. A lot of them (including those in the Bible,) didn't even have the Old Testement, let alone a knowledge of Jesus. However, it always was, and always will be, faith in God that saves man.
Gen 15:6
6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
(from New International Version)
(This belief was in respons to God's promise that God would make the VERY old Abraham, then Abram, the father of many nations.) Abraham didn't know about Jesus dying on the cross, but he did know God and he put all of his confidence in the Lord. Because of that, God counted him as righteous (and, in my opinion, that means that Abraham would count as "saved." )
Also, the Bible does make a reference to Jesus preaching specifically to the people who died in Noah's day in 1 Peter 3:19-20 I haven't actually studied this out, so don't really have a take on just what this verse means or entails, but I thought I would throw it out ther