Well, if you ignore the part about heck existing to punish Lucifer and his fallen angels, that might work. >_> But they will be suffering there, not in charge.Marvin D. wrote:What if God sends everyone who didn't accept him to heck and there, it's Satan who tortures them and dies what he wants?
Do Sinners Really Go to heck? (Split-- Theist Q&A)
- The Top Crusader
- Hammer Bro
- Posts: 22646
- Joined: April 2005
- Location: A drawbridge over a lava pit with an axe conveniently off to the side
That's true, but for now at least, Satan and the demons roam around. .Godzilla wrote:Well, if you ignore the part about heck existing to punish Lucifer and his fallen angels, that might work. >_> But they will be suffering there, not in charge.Marvin D. wrote:What if God sends everyone who didn't accept him to heck and there, it's Satan who tortures them and dies what he wants?
"I still see Marvin as a newbie that is just as cool as an oldie." --snubs
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
- The Top Crusader
- Hammer Bro
- Posts: 22646
- Joined: April 2005
- Location: A drawbridge over a lava pit with an axe conveniently off to the side
Well, yeah, on earth, I doubt they want to go to prison early.
So what if they keep all the unsaved there for now? And torture them?
"I still see Marvin as a newbie that is just as cool as an oldie." --snubs
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
- The Top Crusader
- Hammer Bro
- Posts: 22646
- Joined: April 2005
- Location: A drawbridge over a lava pit with an axe conveniently off to the side
I don't think Satan has anything to do with dealing judgment in the afterlife... I assume heck has self-sustaining torture or regular angels being mean. Satan only has a finite number of followers, I'd think he'd be better served by them being on earth... not to mention its clearly stated he has been given dominion over the earth, not heck... I doubt he could be there if he wanted to.
heck is his home, as is earth. .and if the angels are innumerable and 1/3 followed him, wouldn't that still be a lot?
"I still see Marvin as a newbie that is just as cool as an oldie." --snubs
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
- The Top Crusader
- Hammer Bro
- Posts: 22646
- Joined: April 2005
- Location: A drawbridge over a lava pit with an axe conveniently off to the side
Where does it say heck is his home again? >_>
I'd philosophize about this, but I tend to steer away from my own theology and philosophy, as I'm not really good at that stuff. The other day I began thinking about God being outside of time, and ended up at the theory that God is this dude in a world like ours, and we're all in a videogame, and there are several worlds like ours. And God's name is something like Theodore, or Matthew, and he has fellow God gamers. Exactly. Nonsense. I almost laughed at myself when I realized where my thoughts had taken me. I try to read lots of different views and see which ones first line up with the Bible, and then make sense. I believe there is a heck, and I believe God sends people there, as the Bible says. It is my least favorite topic because it really puts me in a bad mood, but my preferences of discussion don't really matter. Argh, random babbling. It seems all I'm capable of when discussing serious topics.
Sounds like you're pretty much a philosopher in the making. Don't laugh off your thoughts and ideas, explore them!
Fallacy of false continuum. // bookworm
Any cupcake can be made holy through being baptized in the name of the Butter, the Vanilla and the Powdered Sugar. // Kait
Any cupcake can be made holy through being baptized in the name of the Butter, the Vanilla and the Powdered Sugar. // Kait
2 Peter 2:4 says the angels who sinned were cast into heck, so wouldn't Satan have gone as well? And that time Jesus cast out the demons, they asked to not be sent to the pit. .heck?
"I still see Marvin as a newbie that is just as cool as an oldie." --snubs
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
Another similarly sympathetic view is the fate of babies who are born before they can be baptised, or young children who are brought up by parents with no religious views and have no knowledge of God.American Eagle wrote:Let's do it together, Jelly.
Your logic is sound, bookworm. That is the first time I've ever heard such a theory.
Ultimately we don't know what happens, but I don't believe (as some apparently do) that they end up in heck because that is "the only option." Like a previous poster mentioned, I think there's a lot more to it than we understand.
Technically, the term used for heck is "tartarus" which (I believe) is not used elsewhere in the New Testament. I don't believe it's referring to heck.Marvin D. wrote:2 Peter 2:4 says the angels who sinned were cast into heck, so wouldn't Satan have gone as well? And that time Jesus cast out the demons, they asked to not be sent to the pit. .heck?
Also, Satan is the Ruler of the Air. (Whatever that means...I don't think he's in heck.)
But he's also called Apollyon/Abbadon. .the prince of the bottomless pit.Maximus Meridius wrote:Technically, the term used for heck is "tartarus" which (I believe) is not used elsewhere in the New Testament. I don't believe it's referring to heck.Marvin D. wrote:2 Peter 2:4 says the angels who sinned were cast into heck, so wouldn't Satan have gone as well? And that time Jesus cast out the demons, they asked to not be sent to the pit. .heck?
Also, Satan is the Ruler of the Air. (Whatever that means...I don't think he's in heck.)
Note: I do not say that I agree that Satan gets to torture those in heck. .it's just a thought
"I still see Marvin as a newbie that is just as cool as an oldie." --snubs
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
Yeah, that’s what I said. Sinning is rejecting God.Christian A. wrote:People don't go to heck because they reject God. They go to heck because they sin.
On a side note: I've read a few posts in here about atheists "wanting" to separate themselves from God, as if it were a rebellion. Honestly, most atheists that I've heard from simply believe that there isn't a God from whom to be separate.
I'm not prepared to tackle the issue of heck itself, but I think that it's an important distinction. (Actually, while I disagree with him on many, many things, including the idea that he was all that funny to begin with, George Carlin's spiel on heck comes pretty close to my thoughts on the subject...)
I'm not prepared to tackle the issue of heck itself, but I think that it's an important distinction. (Actually, while I disagree with him on many, many things, including the idea that he was all that funny to begin with, George Carlin's spiel on heck comes pretty close to my thoughts on the subject...)
Last edited by Caswin on Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Novacom transmission... one, two, three... testing, one, two, three...
- Christian A.
- Animatronic
- Posts: 1063
- Joined: April 2011
- Location: Copley, Ohio
- Contact:
Hmm. I'm not sure I would agree with that. Rejecting God is sinning, but I thought we were talking about rejecting Christ and His salvation. Someone can't reject that unless they've heard about Him. But I'm saying that they can still go to heck because they've still sinned, and they still deserve eternal punishment.bookworm wrote:Yeah, that’s what I said. Sinning is rejecting God.Christian A. wrote:People don't go to heck because they reject God. They go to heck because they sin.
- Astronomer
- Catspaw Rocks!
- Posts: 808
- Joined: March 2012
- Location: Dark Town, Ri'an
Didn't Paul write somewhere that the law is written on every person's heart? That even those who haven't heard the gospel can still live according to it, by following their conscience? I think I remember reading that somewhere, but it might not have been in the Bible...
My blog: http://www.jessericebooks.blogspot.com Where I talk about stuff and the book(s) I've published.
Yes, but the gift of God is eternal life, which we get by calling on the name of God, to be saved, and those who haven't accepted Christ aren't going to Heaven.Christian A. wrote:Hmm. I'm not sure I would agree with that. Rejecting God is sinning, but I thought we were talking about rejecting Christ and His salvation. Someone can't reject that unless they've heard about Him. But I'm saying that they can still go to heck because they've still sinned, and they still deserve eternal punishment.bookworm wrote:Yeah, that’s what I said. Sinning is rejecting God.Christian A. wrote:People don't go to heck because they reject God. They go to heck because they sin.
"I still see Marvin as a newbie that is just as cool as an oldie." --snubs
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
Most Sarcastic Poster | Most Likely To Be Eaten By a Dinosaur and Smote by God |
Biggest Joker and Grammar Nazi | Best Writer
- Christian A.
- Animatronic
- Posts: 1063
- Joined: April 2011
- Location: Copley, Ohio
- Contact:
But I'm saying that it's not the rejecting of Christ that's sending them to heck. If they haven't heard of Christ, they can't reject Him, so God couldn't hold them accountable for that. What I am saying is that sinners go to heck because they've sinned. Yes, for some, one of those sins is rejection of Christ. But those, say, in a remote tribe in Africa who haven't heard the gospel, go to heck, not because they rejected Christ, but because they committed sins, like idolatry, lying, theft, hatred, lust, etc.Marvin D. wrote:Yes, but the gift of God is eternal life, which we get by calling on the name of God, to be saved, and those who haven't accepted Christ aren't going to Heaven.Christian A. wrote:Hmm. I'm not sure I would agree with that. Rejecting God is sinning, but I thought we were talking about rejecting Christ and His salvation. Someone can't reject that unless they've heard about Him. But I'm saying that they can still go to heck because they've still sinned, and they still deserve eternal punishment.bookworm wrote:Yeah, that’s what I said. Sinning is rejecting God.Christian A. wrote:People don't go to heck because they reject God. They go to heck because they sin.
Do you get what I'm saying?
There's some room for argument there, because I don't believe that ALL thieving, lying, idolatry, etc is automatically a sin. To have a sin, you have to 1) Know something is wrong objectively (e.g. thieving) and 2) choose to do it anyway. Now we can argue that all people have a conscience and can properly discern that certain acts are objectively sinful, but I would still argue that there is a lot of nuance, and we can't just say that people who haven't heard the Gospel and do these things are going straight to heck. There's a lot more to it than that. There's a lot of grey areas even if it does have the effect of making Christianity and the rules we follow more nuanced and confusing. I think we get in a lot of trouble when we try to make rules like saying people go to heck when they commit sins. How many sins? 1? 50? Is there a bright line rule? Does it apply to people who never know they should be forgiven because they have no knowledge of God or forgiveness of sin? There's a lot of questions, which I think we really can only speculate about.Christian A. wrote:But I'm saying that it's not the rejecting of Christ that's sending them to heck. If they haven't heard of Christ, they can't reject Him, so God couldn't hold them accountable for that. What I am saying is that sinners go to heck because they've sinned. Yes, for some, one of those sins is rejection of Christ. But those, say, in a remote tribe in Africa who haven't heard the gospel, go to heck, not because they rejected Christ, but because they committed sins, like idolatry, lying, theft, hatred, lust, etc.Marvin D. wrote:Yes, but the gift of God is eternal life, which we get by calling on the name of God, to be saved, and those who haven't accepted Christ aren't going to Heaven.Christian A. wrote:Hmm. I'm not sure I would agree with that. Rejecting God is sinning, but I thought we were talking about rejecting Christ and His salvation. Someone can't reject that unless they've heard about Him. But I'm saying that they can still go to heck because they've still sinned, and they still deserve eternal punishment.bookworm wrote:Yeah, that’s what I said. Sinning is rejecting God.Christian A. wrote:People don't go to heck because they reject God. They go to heck because they sin.
Do you get what I'm saying?