The Church

[Catspaw]

The church service is what lays the foundation for the fellowship and growth, but some of the more personal aspects are better applied later. I can decide during the sermon to make a positive change in my life, and truly want to follow up on it, but sometimes the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. I think that the sermons at my church are excellent. However, it doesn't matter if I hear a great sermon or a lousy one if I don't think about it afterwards and find a way to apply it to my life, and then to actually do what God wants me to do! That's where my small group is very helpful. We've all heard the same great sermon (which typically will include some action steps) but I think most of us can agree that it can still be hard to actually get the motivation to take the time to spend time asking God how to apply the sermon or to have the strength/desire/whatever to actually do what God is calling you to do. My small group time during the week allows me to talk with others about that after I've had a few days to think about the sermon and possibly make some applications or pray about it, and then have accountability and support for following through on the sermon and just taking time for devotions in general. My church used to be a lot smaller (~150 people) when I first started attending, but even with that many people, you still can't know everybody, and the church lobby still only provides so much opportunity for true fellowship. I can easily make small talk with people, but I need a more private setting to have deeper conversations and pray with others to experience real growth. What really helps inspire and direct that growth is the Sunday sermon, which I can then apply even better when I spend time with others with a similar goal of growing through what the church teaches, together with my own personal Bible study and prayer time.

I hope that makes sense. I truly see this is a both/and situation, not an either/or situation.

[DanP740]

This afternoon I heard part of this podcast about declining church attendance.

[rickyderocher]

Hebrews 10:25 - "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

[Josef1004]

Hebrews 10:25 - "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

What day?

[John Chrysostom]

Every day

[Josef1004]

Every day

So with that interpretation, the verse could just as well say: " Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some is, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see every day approaching."

Does that rendering remain true to the sense of the Word? Or could there be something more specific that is to be anticipated that gives relevance to both our gatherings together and our exhortations?

[John Chrysostom]

I thought you were referring to the highlighted portion, as in which day do we assemble together. hahah, we are just not understanding each other today.

No I'd say the day approaching is judgement day.

[Josef1004]

What is judgement day? How do you define judgement day?

[John Chrysostom]

I believe it to be the Resurrection of the dead, And the Life of the age to come. When Christ returns and judges us like we see in Matthew 25:31-46. How about you?

[Josef1004]

Well, Are you sure it should be interpreted as a literal day? Couldn't it be an inconceivable time that's been happening all the time gradually or something?

[John Chrysostom]

Biblical interpretation isn't an either or situation, it isn't all literal or all metaphorical. I know you want me to say yes it is a literal day then you'll run over to the Genesis thread and be like "ah ha" but I don't think it's that clear cut.

I look to the Church and the Holy Fathers and interpret Scripture in that context and that tells me that there is a Judgement day coming and we should live like that day is tomorrow, so in the end the actual day or literal of figurative nature of that day is secondary to how it should affect our lives. Likewise my reading tells me that there has always been, and will continue to be a great deal of confusion and disagreement about both the reading of Genesis and of Revelation so in the end I say God created everything, Christ will return and judge us and in between while God continues to sustain the universe I better be preparing myself for that judgement.

[Josef1004]

No, I wouldn't have done that at all-- because I believe you are intelligent enough to make that connection on your own.

But what I am concerned for you about is the fact that you do look to the church and the "Holy Fathers" and interpret the Scripture in that context. I want to suggest to you that the Bible is the Word of God in its own right. There is nothing wrong, and everything right, with interpreting it in its own context. What are the direct biblical contexts concerning the dead raising, the life in the next age, and the Lord Jesus Christ's return?

[John Chrysostom]

I believe that since Scripture was given in the context of the Church it needs to be interpreted in that context. Scripture was never written or given in a vacuum and the idea that we need to interpret it in one is a recent idea.

[Josef1004]

What came first--the Scriptures or the Church?

[John Chrysostom]

The Old Testament, then the Church, then the New Testament. The Old Testament was only understood in the context of Christ through the Church and the New Testament was written to the Church for the Church.

[TigerintheShadows]

And the New Testament is the one that mentions Judgement Day the most, which all the more drives home the point that we need to interpret that in Church context.

[Josef1004]

The Old Testament, then the Church, then the New Testament. The Old Testament was only understood in the context of Christ through the Church and the New Testament was written to the Church for the Church.

Couldn't it be more correct to say that the Old Testament was understood in the context of Christ through the promises of God--which were written in his Word, which He has exalted above his name?
(Who's reproach did Moses treasure more than the pleasures of Egypt?)(Hebrews 11:26)

And the New Testament is the one that mentions Judgement Day the most, which all the more drives home the point that we need to interpret that in Church context.

That's not altogether true. The Old testament is full of judgement day prophecys/ warnings. It just has another name in the Old Testament. You must learn to know it by that name. Look up "Day of the LORD" in BibleGateway. Which testament do most of the results come from?

[John Chrysostom]

No I wouldn't phrase it that way, as C.S. Lewis said "It is Christ Himself, not the Bible, which is the true word of God. The Bible, read in the right spirit and with the guidance of good teachers will bring us to him." I think the guidance of good teachers, read here the Church, is key.

[Josef1004]

the New Testament was written to the Church for the Church.

I think the guidance of good teachers, read here the Church, is key.

Am I correct in concluding that you have two different definitions for the word "Church"?

[John Chrysostom]

Yes, church being the building, Church being The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church