Morrie and Suzu

Whit's wiping down the counter, Connie's mopping the floor, and the kids are sipping on their milkshakes. If you want to talk about Adventures in Odyssey the radio drama, this is the spot to do just that!
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Laura Ingalls
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Morrie and Suzu

Post by Laura Ingalls »

Out of curiosity, since I am out of the loop in recent years of the show, can someone explain what has been highly controversial about Morrie and Suzu?
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Post by bookworm »

I have the same question. (And I split this to a new thread because it probably has the potential to develop into a full discussion topic.)
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Post by Pseudonym »

I will say, having no context about the situation in the slightest, that it sounds absolutely scandalous. :shock:
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Post by KODY 105 »

I don't have the eloquence that others have. Morrie and Suzu are siblings who entered town and basically set up a bunch of other children (mostly Emily Jones) in a set of situations that build character at the expense of mental anguish and without safeties that their parents would have wanted. Claiming that "they did the right thing" does not justify endangering children. Oh, and that brings me to the biggest deal: Morrie and Suzu are criminals, and they endangered children and threatened them with imminent death. Supposedly "there was no real danger," but that hardly matters to a [10-year-old?] child. You tell them they're going to die [suffocation], and they're going to believe you. These two miscreants endangered and threatened children, violated the US CFAA, and act in reprehensible ways to the children around them.

Oh, so besides the criminal antics of juvenile deliquents, supposedly Mr. Whittaker knew what they were up to and he didn't do anything about it. He played along and let the child endangerment and threats of death happen. His involvement might absolve the violation of the CFAA, but the child endangerment and death threats are still criminal acts in which he was involved. Mr. Whittaker made bad decisions, didn't involve the parents of the threatened children, and retroactively ruined the show back to circa 2010 broadcast time.

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Post by bookworm »

:huh: I see.
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Post by Jonathan »

KODY 105 wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:56 pmOh, and that brings me to the biggest deal: Morrie and Suzu are criminals, and they endangered children and threatened them with imminent death.
Geez, quit listening for a few years and you miss a lot.
Mr. Whittaker made bad decisions, didn't involve the parents of the threatened children, and retroactively ruined the show back to circa 2010 broadcast time.
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Post by Bob »

Although it has been discussed (and critically bashed) in detail before, on numerous threads, I thought it was worth taking the time to try to provide a brief rundown of the key points of the controversy, along with some relevant background and chronological details, for those who haven't listened to the show at all since <album 50. Monica Stone's plot summary is more complete, if you are interested in a total rundown, but this post should cover the gist of the saga and the reason why it's controversial.

Emily Jones and Matthew Parker are two kid characters who were introduced after the last hiatus (post-album 50, starting early 2010). They are both bright; Emily is a devoted amateur detective, and Matthew, Emily's best friend, is an inventor/tinkerer-type who she tends to bring into her adventures (either willingly or reluctantly). In album 51, the early '10 season, Matthew was 10 years old; I'd guess Em is a similar age, or maybe a little older. When Buck Oliver was introduced in album 53, he was 14. He is now (in recent albums) no less than 16, and potentially 17 or older. With the passing of AIO time, and given that Matthew is established to be post-voice-change now, I would expect Emily and Matthew to be at least 12, and they're plausibly older - maybe somewhere from 13 to 14, of late and around the time period of this saga.

In episode #802, "Parker for President" (released in 2016), where Olivia and Matthew Parker run for student body president (against each other), Morrie Rydell is introduced. It is noted that that he was campaign manager at his previous schools and that his candidates won 'in landslides'. In this and the next few episodes, it is shown that he is a rather sneaky, conniving character, who operates behind the scenes and sets people up in difficult situations. (Emily also has a 'solve-the-mystery' feature in Clubhouse magazine, and they ran a number of stories where her 'mysterious nemesis', assumed to be the same one from the radio show, caused her, her friends, and her school a lot of dramatic problems. Clubhouse magazine isn't actually canon, but it does represent at least some of the writers' understanding of what the characters are supposed to be like.)

In #804, a bunch of somewhat-interesting but mostly-tedious stuff happens around the school. Emily gets involved and is not able to solve the case, which is unusual in her stories. This story introduces Morrie's foster sister, Suzu, who claims to be interested in detective work herself (thus being a potential 'rival' to Emily). Dion (a kid with a troubled past) is framed and blamed, but it is implied that Morrie was responsible at the end.

In #833, "The Secret of the Writer's Ruse", Morrie enjoys a melodramatic villain's monologue at the end, boasting about his intelligence and how nobody can keep up with him or his plots. At the same time, Whit has a moment of spiritual insight, similar to C&C, where he determines that something is 'not right' about the situation earlier in the episode.

In #853, "The Good in People", Olivia's goal of getting the drama club to a festival is sabotaged when Morrie sets up a phone scam: an actor he paid off pretends to represent a 'matching funds' organization, then disappears when Olivia believes it, leaving her to find a way to deal with the bill. (She ends up paying for it out of her college fund.) In a private conversation with Suzu, his foster sister, at the end, Morrie essentially admits that he is responsible.

In #877, Morrie sets up his most diabolical scheme up to this point by trapping Emily and Matthew in an escape room, and implying, by the presence of oxygen tanks, that they will die from oxygen deprivation if they don't get out in time. This takes place in the basement of Whit's End. Mr. Whittaker and Suzu, are also present, outside of the escape room setup. It is worth noting at this point that Mr. Whittaker says this situation is 'demented'. In the climax, Emily and Matthew are presented with a single oxygen mask, and thus must 'choose' who will survive if they don't get out in enough time. Emily gives Matthew the mask. They are able to escape not long after that, and it is revealed that Morrie was bluffing. They weren't actually in immediate danger, because there was no means of getting the oxygen that was naturally in the room out of it, so they would have survived for hours and hours, more than enough time to leave. Nevertheless, this is, clearly, a major step up in Morrie's villainy. Emily, at this point, and allegedly Mr. Whittaker, commence an investigation.

In #885, Emily's consciousness is hijacked by an Imagination Station-derived piece of equipment, which puts her in an 'adventure' where she believes Matthew has been kidnapped. She is able to deduce she is in a virtual reality at the end of it. In this episode, Whit says that there's no clues that lead to the perpetrator in the escape room fiasco. Morrie was able to build the device from parts Whit conveniently 'threw away'.

In "Rydell Revelations, part 1", Emily's complete step-by-step investigation is shown in detail, as she questions friends, collects evidence, and determines that Morrie is responsible for all of the problems her and her friends have had recently. It's effectively revealed in this episode that Suzu was working with Morrie (although the details of that aren't revealed until parts 2-3). The episode ends very dramatically by Mr. Whittaker telling Morrie that he believes Morrie has been 'gaming' him, and everyone around them.

So far, so good. I don't think anyone can deny that the things that have happened to these characters are awful, but it isn't above-and-beyond worse than things that have happened to kids in other episodes of AIO before; as of yet, there's no controversy. Whit is, at this point, only culpable inasmuch as his security techniques could use some work, which is both an honest mistake, and something that has happened before.

The trouble is what happens in Rydell Revelations, Part 2-3. In these episodes, it is revealed that Mr. Whittaker knew what was happening all along, but chose not to do anything, because he thought that Emily, Morrie, Suzu (and implicitly Matthew, although he isn't named, apparently because he stopped being an active character in between Rydell Revelations, Part 1 and Part 3), were 'special', 'needed to use their talents', and shouldn't always expect 'tame' adventures. Morrie and Suzu get off without any particular criminal response, although Suzu at least seems remorseful (which is probably one of the reasons why Morrie still gets most of the flak, even though they were partners). Everyone seems to be ready to 'move on' from and forget what happened, except for Emily, who is not happy with Morrie, Suzu, or Mr. Whittaker.

Not long after this, Phil Lollar was in a controversial series of exchanges with fans where he made statements that seemed to ask the question, "was Morrie right" (that is, was what he was doing morally good). The obvious answer for everyone who's listened to or even read about the shows, of course, is "no", so the fact that Mr. Lollar even asked the question and tried to present a case for it (albeit likely as a devil's advocate) caused fans to question not just Mr. Whittaker's moral compass, but also Phil Lollar's, and by association, that of the entire AIO team.

Future episodes featuring Morrie have done nothing to address the fundamental issues in this controversy. Much of Emily's writing seems very aware (in a meta sense) of the show's problems (at some points, her dialogue could be directly quoting fans who criticized these episodes), but everyone else, including her father, seem to be in their own reality, where they 1) gaslight Em, ignoring the fact that the things that happened to her were kind of a big deal, 2) push her to hang out with Morrie and Suzu in spite of their history, and 3) sanction blithely breaking rules, committing minor crimes, and ignoring other ethical principles, in attempting to stop 'bigger bads'.

The other thing to note is that this arc (which began to be released in 2016, in our time; Rydell Revelations, Part 2 aired in October 2020, and was released to Club listeners in July 2020), is rather insulated from the rest of continuity. Other than these episodes, nothing particularly controversial or unusual have happened in most of the others, except for a couple of episodes that Phil Lollar wrote, "Millstones" and "A Dickensian Dilemma", which also address moral dilemmas. In fact, a number of episodes (such as the famous "Olivia arc") have been glowingly reviewed and acknowledged as among the best the show has ever released.

So, the gist of KODY 105's post is objectively right in that Morrie and Suzu performed criminal actions, Mr. Whittaker dropped the ball, and there's now a lingering problem with both Mr. Whittaker and the show.


_______________________________________


I've discussed/argued with K105 about this before, so he's not going to see many new points here. ;) The points where I'd disagree with his analysis are concerning some of the technical details (Emily and Matthew were likely 13-14, early teens - although that doesn't make what happened less reprehensible), and the statement that it 'ruined the show back to 2010'. There are 6+ years and many albums between the beginning of the 'relaunch', and the Morrie arc. I'm not even sure the Morrie arc itself is irreparable*, but if we suppose it is, it only definitively went off the deep end when Mr. Whittaker said that he knew what was going on and did nothing to stop it, which is Rydell Revelations, Part 2, dated mid-2020 - four years after it started, and less than two years ago, in real time. (If you were to count it by the time the writers wrote and decided to use that show, possibly a couple of years earlier, but technically, they had the option to do otherwise up until the day it was first released to the public.)

In terms of how much real world time has passed, this would be roughly equivalent to saying, in in the mid-late '90s, that we should write off all of AIO because of Jason in "A Touch of Healing" or DBD, or because of the program in "Gloobers". If you think this situation means that a principled boycott of the show is necessary, that's your decision and I can respect that, but I don't see how it logically follows that only episodes from 2010 and on should count. I could suggest several alternatives, which all seem to be reasonable and valid possibilities:
1) All Morrie episodes, but only Morrie episodes, after either "Further from the Truth", or "Rydell Revelations, Part 1". (If you feel the episodes after these are the real problem, not just Morrie existing and being a villain.)
2) All Morrie episodes, but only Morrie episodes. (If the problem is the Morrie arc as a whole.)
3) All Morrie episodes, plus no Club (since having it requires financing AIO via an active subscription, which implies a general consent to their works).
4) Rydell Revelations, Part 2, and all AIO episodes afterwards. (If you feel anything the writers wrote after Mr. Whittaker's moral compass being compromised is also compromised.)
5) "Parker for President", and all AIO episodes after. (Because this is when Morrie was introduced; otherwise the same as 4.)
6) All of AIO. (If you feel that AIO's current moral values are irreconcilably in conflict with yours, and that the whole show is tainted as a result.)

I don't mean this as an exhaustive list of possible boycotts, just that this is a short list of options that are, in my mind, well-grounded, if you want to do this kind of thing.

* If Mr. Whittaker flatly admitted he was wrong and apologized, it would likely be received as the writers' apology too, and go a long way towards addressing this controversy. Alternatively, if you're desperate to retcon this whole situation, at any cost, I suppose you could say that most or all of it was a Room of Consequence adventure, which would also be received as a tacit admission that the previous episodes were flawed. The arc is self-contained enough that I don't think it would affect the rest of continuity much.
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Post by KODY 105 »

Yeah, the 2010 thing is a bit of a stretch. That was when I stopped listening, and when the new voice of Whit came along. So what, generation 4 of AIO kids/characters? It's like Sherlock: throw out season 4 and it's the best show BBC ever produced. Or like how the Matrix is a good movie; it should have sequels made!
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Post by Jonathan »

KODY 105 wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:33 pm Yeah, the 2010 thing is a bit of a stretch. That was when I stopped listening, and when the new voice of Whit came along. So what, generation 4 of AIO kids/characters? It's like Sherlock: throw out season 4 and it's the best show BBC ever produced. Or like how the Matrix is a good movie; it should have sequels made!
I get it, that's when I quit too; harder to come back from a hiatus as an adult, I think. And then I went to the live show in Dallas in 2012 and heard a few clips from new shows and picked it up again. After throwing a fit over the club I did eventually break down and got a subscription but quit listening and cancelled my membership before the Morrie episodes started.

That all said, I'd encourage you to listen through album 56. After that, with the club and the general 'soap opera' feel certain plots and stories took on, I just don't see as that great. But album 51 to 56 (2010 to 2012) was good.
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Post by KODY 105 »

Oh, I've heard all the broadcast episodes now! I reviewed them on the Reviews board. That's how I have as much to say about the Morrie and Suzu criminals as I do.
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Post by Laura Ingalls »

Thanks for the explanation, guys! =D>
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Post by Bananareader »

Bob wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:19 pm

_______________________________________




In terms of how much real world time has passed, this would be roughly equivalent to saying, in in the mid-late '90s, that we should write off all of AIO because of Jason in "A Touch of Healing" or DBD, or because of the program in "Gloobers". If you think this situation means that a principled boycott of the show is necessary, that's your decision and I can respect that, but I don't see how it logically follows that only episodes from 2010 and on should count. I could suggest several alternatives, which all seem to be reasonable and valid possibilities:
1) All Morrie episodes, but only Morrie episodes, after either "Further from the Truth", or "Rydell Revelations, Part 1". (If you feel the episodes after these are the real problem, not just Morrie existing and being a villain.)
2) All Morrie episodes, but only Morrie episodes. (If the problem is the Morrie arc as a whole.)
3) All Morrie episodes, plus no Club (since having it requires financing AIO via an active subscription, which implies a general consent to their works).
4) Rydell Revelations, Part 2, and all AIO episodes afterwards. (If you feel anything the writers wrote after Mr. Whittaker's moral compass being compromised is also compromised.)
5) "Parker for President", and all AIO episodes after. (Because this is when Morrie was introduced; otherwise the same as 4.)
6) All of AIO. (If you feel that AIO's current moral values are irreconcilably in conflict with yours, and that the whole show is tainted as a result.)

I don't mean this as an exhaustive list of possible boycotts, just that this is a short list of options that are, in my mind, well-grounded, if you want to do this kind of thing.

The is an interesting list of alternatives, but here are a few problems with it, numbers 4,5, and 6, are terrible ideas, because then you the Olivia arc (#924: “Higher than Our Ways”-#929: “The Lost One, Part 2”), All Three parts of “As Buck Would Have It, Part 1-3, the entire Album 73: 38 Hourse, and Album 75: The Best is Yet to come, because then you miss what happens to Eugene, that was just my slight disagreement with your list, but the other numbers are good ideas if I were planning on boycotting Odyssey , which I'm not doing, i just wanted to bring up the point that by doing numbers 4,5, and 6 you would miss alot of good not controversial episodes.
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