Whit's security practices

Whit's wiping down the counter, Connie's mopping the floor, and the kids are sipping on their milkshakes. If you want to talk about Adventures in Odyssey the radio drama, this is the spot to do just that!
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Bob
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Whit's security practices

Post by Bob »

This is something of a niche topic which can be explained (albeit only in a meta sense, "out of universe") by the writers' limited understanding of technology at the time, but let's try it out anyway.

In the Applesauce mini-saga, Whit reveals the existence of a top-secret program to Eugene, and before long, everyone knows about it. Later, in "The Battle", Richard Maxwell and Dr. Blackgaard connect to the computer in Whit's End and attempt to access Applesauce, but are foiled by the lack of a password. This leads us to a series of questions and points:

1) It's obvious why Applesauce 'has' to be on the computer from a writing standpoint (it is a parallel for the Garden of Eden), but why would Whit store a top-secret government program on the same computer he uses to run Whit's End appliances and devices?

2) Since he did, why would Whit then set up his top-secret computer with military secrets so that anyone with a modem could remotely access it? There's no obvious reason I could see why it would need general internet access in the first place, much less accept connections from elsewhere. At the most, I could see there being a private line to some government facility.

3) Why is Mabel set up for an unprotected single-user environment? It's one thing to say that Whit should be able to trust Eugene to run the computer, but anybody who remotely logs in (without any password) gets high-level access too.

4) Why would Whit create a "power surge" function in the first place? Since he did, why isn't it protected, since it is likely to be destructive?

Not really a question, but 5) A single password was apparently enough to protect Applesauce, in practice. But in hindsight, it seems like a somewhat imperfect security mechanism for something that is so important everyone in the world wants it. It seems like it would be better if it also required physical access to the machine (perhaps with some kind of dongle). (This would also explain the defensive move of making a secret computer room in the first place.)

6) When you run Applesauce and fail to enter the password at level 2, Mabel shuts down everything in Whit's End, including herself. Apparently you then have to physically reset the system. That certainly does prevent people from remotely getting at the military secrets in the computer, but it seems that a less drastic step might be in order, e.g. shutting down all internet access, or preventing anyone from accessing any of the programs without entering a second password (maybe in person, using voice commands). This is another thing that is explained by the "Garden" context, but it seems like a flawed practice in reality.

7) Does Mabel keep a log of connections? Apparently she does to some extent, because they were able to find out there were two attempts to access Applesauce; one we know of for sure, Maxwell/Blackgaard, and it's been suggested via [commentary on] "An Accidental Dilemma" that the Whisperer also did. Nowadays it'd be hard to find someone who didn't want to be found, thanks to proxy servers, but this was 1989. Couldn't they have tracked these people down?

It was an exciting series in the late '80s, but in retrospect it seems like it needs some serious explanation or retconning so that Mr. Whittaker isn't a careless steward of government property. ;) I haven't read the books; have they answered or elaborated on any of these details?
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Post by KODY 105 »

You'd be disappointed to learn about how the vast majority of government contractors operate. Have you ever heard of a development environment? How much security do you think goes on there, in general?

I'm more concerned about the unfinished escape room that a child can break into and threaten/endanger children. The activities of a nation-state-level threat (Dr. Blackgaard) are merely to be expected.
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Post by Bob »

KODY 105 wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:44 am You'd be disappointed to learn about how the vast majority of government contractors operate.
Maybe so!
KODY 105 wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:44 am Have you ever heard of a development environment? How much security do you think goes on there, in general?
I've run several. I'll grant that I've employed imperfect practices myself in the past. However, I'm an amateur dealing with things that aren't especially important; Mr. Whittaker is supposed to be a very patriotic, world-class computer scientist, dealing with the Most Important Program of All Time. Besides, it isn't a development environment where Applesauce is concerned; the program is complete, and is sitting there apparently in storage.
KODY 105 wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:44 amI'm more concerned about the unfinished escape room that a child can break into and threaten/endanger children.
I wasn't interested in turning this into another Rydell topic so quickly, but since you brought it up, I'd point out that it is technically not a poor security practice if Mr. Whittaker is at least generally aware of it and allows it to happen. That's one of the defects in the resolution to this saga. If Whit was blindsided, it'd just be a lapse or mistake, but (thanks to certain writers) he claims he wasn't.

(I think the emphasis on 'a child' here may be misplaced, though. For one thing, they're probably early teens, or at the earliest 12-ish. For another thing, in the story they are noted to be prodigious. A child of average, or even considerably above-average, intelligence and experience probably couldn't pull it off, but the kid who is going to get his engineering degree when he's nine might.)

Even if we granted this as a security lapse, I'm not sure it is even the most serious one in that saga. In the episode after that one, the creeper box is built using Imagination Station technology that Mr. Whittaker casually discarded. Given that there was a time he refused to let Barry Muntz so much as look at the I.S. plans, it's a serious step down to just throw pieces of this futuristic and dangerous technology away for anyone to rummage through. The only way that this isn't a major security lapse is if he set it up for Morrie to take it... which isn't any better!
KODY 105 wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:44 amThe activities of a nation-state-level threat (Dr. Blackgaard) are merely to be expected.
Maybe so, but it should at least require a nation-state-level effort to hack in. Maybe Richard just made it sound easier than it was (which is plausible), but the episode makes it sound like anyone could pick up a modem at Radioshack and have a go at accessing Mr. Whittaker's military secrets.
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Post by KODY 105 »

I had wondered about the quick discarding of that pseudo-IS system. I had forgotten about the Muntz situation. That very-trusted employee from the merged business wasn't given a complete diagram. Is it possible that Whit conveyed the idea that he was casually discarding it, and that he will reverse-engineer that Creeper Box in his secret lab?
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Post by The Top Crusader »

Not to veer off topic, but just concerning the original Blackgaard episodes... I really wonder what a kid today would think of them, the tech is so extraordinarily dated. Plus Blackgaard ran a literal arcade... would the average eight year old today even understand that concept? I guess there are still some Chuck E Cheese's floating around, which aren't the same but are kind of--then again, a lot of those have been shut down via pandemic, so a young kid may not have ever even been to one.
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Post by bookworm »

Bob wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:51 pmBesides, it isn't a development environment where Applesauce is concerned; the program is complete, and is sitting there apparently in storage.
This aspect of the whole Applesauce concept is what always most confused me. While he was developing the program Whit had access, okay, but as you said it's finished now. Why does he still have it? It should be the government's property now.
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Post by KODY 105 »

Developers always keep a copy. First of all, you need multiple instances just for practical purposes. The first one was where you write, test, and update it first, and the final one is for real use.
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Post by bookworm »

KODY 105 wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:26 pmDevelopers always keep a copy.
Not for a government contracted national security importance most dangerous program in the world. When completed the production and development copy would have both been turned over to the agency Whit was working for, if he needed to later do further development he could get it back from them when required. It's not going to be allowed to sit around on his personal computer to run the lights in an ice cream shop.
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Post by KODY 105 »

Well, we'll add that to the list of felonies Whit's committed in recent history.

On a more serious note, but still disagreeing with you, this discussion has already included the information that the writers had a limited understanding of the tech, in addition to the stories themselves being outdated tech-wise. The practices were probably not so refined back then. In-universe, I could expect that Whit's development environment was Mabel at Whit's End. This show does tend to lean into the ludicrous, when needed for the sake of plot of course.

(I suppose I'm being pedantic about development environment versus development copy, but the distinction is important.)
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Post by Bob »

The thing I'd question is, do we actually know he is fully retired or that his work with them has ceased? By definition, a secret government worker does things secretly. ;) It's possible that his interaction with government agencies is ongoing. In that case, his having a copy may not be so outlandish (depending on what the program does, which we don't know), although there's still not a great excuse for it being accessible in the way it is.

If I recall, one of the snippets I did see from the books seems to imply that the Agency retrieved a copy of Applesauce before he dramatically deleted it. If my memory is right and that is correct, then 1) they knew he had a copy of it, 2) they're apparently fine with that, and 3) he may have had the only copy (or at least, the newest and best one), up until they made the duplicate and he got rid of his copy. But someone who owns "Rook's Ruse" is needed to confirm or deny this.
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