The Town of Odyssey

I thought this was humorous, and yet thought-provoking and very true. It really makes you think about how much God, specifically, the Holy Spirit and Jesus, does for us, with regard to our prayers. And it makes you feel like you could never be grateful enough for His help in that regard. But then... your thanksgiving to Him would be filtered through His perfect touch, without which it would be miserable...and then you'd have to thank Him for that.... you get the picture.

Anway. Hope this gives you another reason to praise our great God.

I've never thought about it like that! This is a great example.

That was a great analogy, I was laughing, but it really is so true. Makes you think. Thanks for sharing

That's funny; but do you really think it's true? Why?

Not in a literal sense, but, yes, the Holy Spirit and Jesus work together to refine our prayers, which are marred by sin, and make them acceptable to the Father. Without them, our prayers would be as irritating to God as that terrible singer is.

Not everything we pray is going to be wrong or offensive to God. And even then, when we bawl and squall and complain He doesn't get angry. He corrects us like the loving Father He is.

I pray, "Lord, thank you for this beautiful day! I'm believing that through Your masterpiece of creation someone will come to know You today."

To put it simply, that doesn't need to be refined. *shrug* To loosely quote Psalm 18? = 'this is the day the Lord has made; I will rejoice and be glad in it.'

I watched the video, and I didn't particularly like it. Our prayers, according to Revelation 5, are incense unto God. That verse isn't separating the 'good' from the 'bad', it just is. Of course, thank God we have Jesus as our Mediator for when we do get on our soap box and rant and rave, but that's where His grace comes in.

You didn't seem to understand the video then. You have a valid point that our prayers are incense to God, a sweet aroma to Him, but that's only because of the Holy Spirit. We only know what to pray because of Him (Romans 8). Without His aid, like I said, our prayers would be pitiful and mean nothing at all. We almost always pray with some sort of selfish motive or thought, but Jesus refines those prayers and brings them to the Father. Without the members of the Trinity working together with us, we couldn't really pray at all.

That's depressing. o.o But amusing to see back and forth about the singer and the editor (whatever his name is;))

But I agree with Termite in a sense. No, we don't pray perfect, just like children can't talk perfect. But to the parents ears it doesn't really matter how they sound, they know what's at the heart level, and because of Jesus, that can be beautiful, I think. *shrugs*

I basically agree with Termite, but I have some snarky remarks that I'll hold back on

*headdesk* But the point is, we can't pray, period, without the Holy Spirit. He's the only reason we can say anything that means anything to God. So yes, I see your point, but you seem to be discounting the fact that everything we say to God originates from the Holy Spirit's work in our hearts.

So the Holy Spirit prays for us? Does this go with your idea that we're little more than robots?

First of all, it's not my idea. Second of all... not really. I wasn't really thinking in those terms. The Holy Spirit is the One Who regenerates our hearts; without His resurrecting work, we couldn't pray to God at all--at least not in a way that He would listen to us. And even after we're saved, He has to continually lead us and guide us in the right direction if we're going to grow in holiness. Romans 8:26 says,

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

We don't even know what to pray for without the Spirit, let alone have the ability to pray it. I think any other way of approaching prayer elevates man higher than he should be elevated in the process.

We humans are sad beings. Can't do anything. At all. Not even pray.

Sadness.

I'M BACK.

*cough* Actually, without the blood of Jesus we couldn't have access to the Father because there's no way the Spirit could renew us without it, but anyway. That's not the point. My point is that yes, we do need His help interceding. Obviously. But as we grow in 'wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him', we aren't absolutely helpless and incapable. Jesus is our Mediator; you're right, because without His redemptive work there's no way we could pray in the first place, and thank God we have the Holy Spirit to help us.

No, I don't always know how to best pray for a situation. That's where, on the other side of prayer, speaking in tongues comes along and helps, which is also to what that verse in Romans is referring. You can disagree, but that's fine; that's a totally different subject exhausted many a time, if memory serves. Back on topic: yes, we do need help to pray. No, I do not always need help to pray.

1 John 5:14-15 wrote:Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

So how do we know His will? Through His Word. As we continue to grow and delve into the truth of the Word we begin to know more and more what His will is. The more we do, the more we know how to stand up in faith and pray without having to use the Spirit as a crutch. Nothing wrong with that, but with maturity comes responsibility, and with responsibility the ability to measure up best we can. His grace is always there.

I understood what he meant in the video, but as I said I didn't like it. Not like = disagree. I disagreed with the video, and even though I know he meant well I feel he over-dramatized our inability. We are no longer slaves to sin; as we give more and more place to God and as our spirit builds the flesh is put under and no longer in control. Yes, we still can be 'marred' by sin because hey, we live in a body and posses a soul that haven't been reborn. However, as our regenerated spirit grows so do the other two shrink and fall into submission, therefore; we are able to do more than we could before, through the Spirit, because of our maturity in Christ - including praying.

I'm not perfect, never will be. All I know is I'm closer to it than I was a year ago, and understood more about prayer and how to go about it. And I don't mean that in a boastful way; it's all God. ^_^

Christian A. wrote:*headdesk* But the point is, we can't pray, period, without the Holy Spirit. He's the only reason we can say anything that means anything to God. So yes, I see your point, but you seem to be discounting the fact that everything we say to God originates from the Holy Spirit's work in our hearts.

Yeah, sorry, but this just isn't true.

We do not influence God with our prayers. The function of prayer is to change the state of our own hearts. Therefore, we have no need for our prayers to be adjusted or 'auto-tuned' for us, as that video suggests. Prayer is an expression of the heart. A form of poetry, if you will. Scientifically, the practice of prayer has a very real effect on our minds and the way we perceive and engage spirituality. Philosophically, the act of prayer is the act of changing one's state of thinking, calling on something greater than one's own understanding. Some traditions rely on spontaneous prayer.. some traditions pray from texts. Most Christians recite the Lord's prayer.

Ultimately, prayer is unique to the one who is doing the praying. There is no one specific way to pray, and it always comes down to the heart behind the prayers.

Ugh! Why can I never start a topic without inciting a debate?

Termite wrote: I'm not perfect, never will be. All I know is I'm closer to it than I was a year ago, and understood more about prayer and how to go about it. And I don't mean that in a boastful way; it's all God. ^_^

That is precisely my point! It's all God! You and Jelly are both correct with your observations that prayer is not about doing anything for God, but about doing something for us. I totally agree. But this is what it all comes down to: it is God Who works in us to grow us and mature us. I can agree that it is us doing the praying, but it's only made possible by the work of the Holy Spirit. That's all I'm trying to say. Without the Holy Spirit changing us, sanctifying us, etc., we would not be able to pray.

So, yes, Jelly, it does come down to the heart of the one who is praying. But that heart is always the product of a resurrecting work by the Spirit of God. Thus, like I said, without the Spirit, none of this would be possible.

Does that make sense to anyone? Or am I really being that unclear?

You are being perfectly clear, in my opinion, and I agree with you.