718: For Three Dollars More
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:42 pm
Was this episode worth your tithe...er, time?
Hmm. I see what you're getting at. I could hear some resemblances. It wasn't too strong though. I'd have never thought it if you hadn't said something. He sounds more like a young person that sounds a little older than he actually is. I feel like if he were playing Whit, he would basically just sound like some guy trying to imitate Paul Herlinger. The nice thing about Andre Stojka as Whit, as it doesn't sound like a sub par impression, without the real personality of Whit. Andre captures the spirit of Whit, yet still makes the character his own. When I hear Andre, I think Whit. I hear a voice like the Pastor in this episode, I think Paul Herlinger. Does that make sense?Christian A. wrote: Oh, and one final thing! Am I the only one who thought that the pastor of Barrett and Matthew's church sounded a whole lot like Paul Herlinger? There were a couple of scenes that started off with him talking, and I was shocked when it sounded so much like the old Mr. Whittaker. I was thinking, why didn't they just use this guy instead of Andre Stojka? I think he could have done a great job sounding like Whit. But what's done is done, I guess. I really would have liked to see how he would have done though. I'll have to look up who that actor was.
Yes, sorry. That's the one I meant.Leonard Meltsner wrote:That was a good review! I think you meant "For Thine is the Kingdom", not "Thy Kingdom Come", which was the ROC episode on God's sovereignty.
It really doesn't have anything to do with the amount of women who attend the church--though, the ratio is about the same. We only have about 100 people attend on any given Sunday. And it's not like women are never allowed to speak ever. Women are only not allowed to speak or contribute to the Sunday morning and evening worship services. They are free to contribute and ask questions during the Sunday School hour and at Prayer Meeting on Wednesday nights. They do sing the worship songs, and we actually do have a lady who plays the guitar for some songs. But no woman is in a speaking or teaching position.Leonard Meltsner wrote:I'm curious, what male:female ratio do you have at your church that allows it that women never speak up? I'm wondering because we have 5 different worship teams, all of which are led by women, with my mom as the main worship leader, and probably over half of our announcements are done by women, as they often involve Women's Ministries, or things the women are doing to collect things or make things for various charities, and they have to explain what's going on. Or even the female missionaries who come and speak? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious about how you do things.
I don't believe that people can lose their salvation. I'll post here what I posted in The Soda Shop the other day:Leonard Meltsner wrote:Finally, I wouldn't say that someone being saved means that they will never rebel. As a youth leader, I've seen people give their hearts to the LORD, be very devout, and outreaching to others, but spiritual attacks can come and there are a few who fall away and now spend their time partying and getting drunk and high. It's extremely sad, but it definitely happens.
Actually, despite my disagreement with you above, I do think that that explanation makes sense. He still had joy over the idea the a young boy got saved, but he didn't realize his own true condition as a false convert.Leonard Meltsner wrote:And I don't think that (older) Barrett was aware of his own falling away in the future. It happened slowly. "The safest road to heck is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts."-CS Lewis. The time lapse of this episode helped to demonstrate this concept. Theoretical-future-Barrett very slowly stopped giving of his money and time. Even in the end, he didn't realize how much he had fallen away. So when he heard Joey had become a Christian, he was excited, because he still considered himself a believer, even when he had slipped away from his faith as he had.
That's my take on the scene, and will hopefully make it make more sense.
Yeah, I can see what you're saying. And you're right. He doesn't sound just like Paul Herlinger. I was just saying that he sounded a lot like him. But I still think I could be satisfied with him as Whit. But I guess we'll never know if that would have worked or not.Dallas R. wrote:Hmm. I see what you're getting at. I could hear some resemblances. It wasn't too strong though. I'd have never thought it if you hadn't said something. He sounds more like a young person that sounds a little older than he actually is. I feel like if he were playing Whit, he would basically just sound like some guy trying to imitate Paul Herlinger. The nice thing about Andre Stojka as Whit, as it doesn't sound like a sub par impression, without the real personality of Whit. Andre captures the spirit of Whit, yet still makes the character his own. When I hear Andre, I think Whit. I hear a voice like the Pastor in this episode, I think Paul Herlinger. Does that make sense?Christian A. wrote: Oh, and one final thing! Am I the only one who thought that the pastor of Barrett and Matthew's church sounded a whole lot like Paul Herlinger? There were a couple of scenes that started off with him talking, and I was shocked when it sounded so much like the old Mr. Whittaker. I was thinking, why didn't they just use this guy instead of Andre Stojka? I think he could have done a great job sounding like Whit. But what's done is done, I guess. I really would have liked to see how he would have done though. I'll have to look up who that actor was.
Yeah, I noticed that, too. I think that if Brandon Gilberstadt had gone for more of a Jared-esque voice, I'd have been able to tell the two apart better, though the downside to that would have been that we'd have been spending the whole time adult!Matthew was talking wondering where the spy cameras and night vision goggles were. That didn't stop adult!Matthew from being too stinking cool, though, but anyone with that voice has got to be awesome.Christian A. wrote:I had a little bit of a hard time following the scenes with the older Matthew and Barrett the first time I listened.
//nodnod It was nice to see this show address that we shouldn't just give because we have to or even because we want to--we give because God gave first.Christian A. wrote:Whit specifically says to Barrett at the end of the show that he probably figured out by now, tithing is not so much for God's benefit, but for our benefit. It shows us our heart condition and when we're not trusting God to provide for us. When we don't trust God enough to give Him just a portion of our income, it's showing that we probably don't trust Him in other areas either. So, yeah, I thought the writers handled this topic very well. Better than I was expecting, for sure.
But it's not always immediate, especially if you've grown up in such a way as to make "getting saved" seem like a normal thing (like, you're desensitized to it, so even if you really were saved, you continue living your life like you used to), nor does it mean that you won't ever succumb to a vice. It's true that nothing can snatch us out of the hand of Jesus, but He never promised that as soon as we got saved, we'd be perfect, nor did he ever promise that we wouldn't fall away. The difference is that the true sheep always find their way back, and the false sheep continue to wander.Christian A. wrote:If we're saved by grace alone, that means that we are kept saved by grace alone. Our good behavior and not rejecting God don't keep us saved; God keeps us saved.
Furthermore, if you're a saved person, God has given you a new heart that no longer delights in doing evil. If you're delighting in sin and willfully rejecting God, that's just evidence that you never got a new heart.
Katrina speaking in front of the church may not line up with your beliefs or your denomination's stance, but it does line up with the beliefs of the majority of Focus on the Family's target audience. Perhaps I am overstepping as I do not share your belief, but I think that in this case, Katrina speaking a few sentences in front of the church, is a minor incongruence, and easy enough to ignore if you don't agree with. I've had to do the same for a few different things here and there on Odyssey that I don't agree with.Christian A. wrote:2. One more important problem I had was that on at least two occasions, Mrs. Meltsner spoke in front of the church during a Sunday morning worship service. Now, granted, these events took place during the fictional RoC adventures, but I seemed to me that they were representative of what would be a perfectly normal occurrence. Now, as was the brief complaint I had last week about Emily and her feministic dreams, this is a personal belief and preference that I try to support with Scripture. And this time, I'm backed by my whole denomination at least. 1 Timothy 2, as well as 1 Corinthians 11, I believe, say that a woman should not speak in the church, but that they should remain silent during the worship service. They shouldn't speak up, but should address their husbands with any questions and comments they have later. I know that's just as controversial as what I said last week, what with all of the female pastors and worship leaders and such. But that's what I believe, so that's just something I wanted to add.
This isn't about whether or not someone can lose their salvation (Odyssey has never been so brave as to touch the Calvinist vs. Wesleyan/Arminian debate). The point is that Barrett has become selfish and stingy a little at a time. He wasn't willing to tithe on a little, so as he ages and his income increases, he continues to not give. I certainly hope we aren't judging a person's salvation based on whether or not they give generously. The Bible clearly teaches that we are saved "by grace through faith," and not through following a set of rules.Christian A. wrote:3. My final complaint is the most relevant to the actual story of the episode. I didn't really like how much Barrett seemed to have backslidden in the future. I know it was all fiction, but Barrett wasn't like, "Hey! I know I'm a Christian now, so there's no way I could act like that and lose my salvation." I just thought it was very odd that Barrett totally gave up on going to church, helping people, and making God a priority, but Matthew still treated him as if he was a Christian and didn't really address that issue. And then what struck me as most weird was that when Matthew told Barrett that Joey, the kid at the recreation center, had recently "given his life to Jesus," Barrett was like, "That's awesome!" On the one hand, he seems to have no care about spiritual things whatsoever, but then he's still excited when someone gets saved. From my point of view, and from the Bible's point of view, if you've been saved, God has changed your heart and your desires, so that you will never ultimately rebel against Him again. You will sin, sure, but He's sealed you with the Holy Spirit. Nothing you could do could separate you from His love, and because of that love, you're not going to want to live in unrepentant sin. Jesus died for your sin, to take the wrath of God away from you. If His wrath no longer abides on you, you could never backslide so much so that you would end up in heck, with His wrath on you again. I know many people don't share that conviction either, but that was something that bugged me about this episode, so, again, I just had to bring it up.