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Perfection?
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:55 pm
by Astronomer
Here is a question I've had for a few days. Is perfection attainable? I'm not talking about complete perfection (All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God), yet that verse is past-tense. Therefore, all have sinned. Once we become Christians, is it possible, with God, to be perfect? John says 'No on who is born of God will continue to sin'. Also we are to be 'perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect'. Does that mean we, with God's help, have the ability to attain perfection after becoming a Christian? Or was John meaning something else?
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:29 pm
by John Chrysostom
I think C.S. Lewis summed up very well what the verse in John means.
C.S. Lewis wrote:The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were ‘gods’ and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said.
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:19 pm
by Christian A.
I think God is continually working on us throughout this life, driving out our imperfections and making us more like Him, but I don't think anyone ever attains it in this life. I think we continue our whole lives marred by the fall, tainted by sin, and in a struggle with our flesh (Romans 7). But in another sense, we are totally perfect in God's sight because of the righteousness of Christ.
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:44 pm
by Marvin D.
I'm perfect.
At being imperfect.
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:55 pm
by Anemone
Marvin D. wrote:I'm perfect.
At being imperfect.
What Marvin said.
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:22 pm
by Jehoshaphat
I don't believe that perfection is attainable in this world. Sin came into the world and destroyed are perfectness, and it is not achievable until we die and go to heaven.
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:30 pm
by Termite
But does that mean we don't aim for perfection? Or should we strive to be as perfect as can be while still living?
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:44 pm
by Jehoshaphat
I think we should strive for perfection.
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:23 pm
by Stop Wooton' Around
I thing we should strive for perfection but can not fully obtain it until we are in heaven. However, I do believe before the time of Jesus that Enoch and Elijah had reached perfection and closeness with God that they were ascended into heaven. If they had not reached perfection then they were the closest ones to reaching it.
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:17 pm
by Josef1004
Don't let your spiritual quest ever be about gaining "it", but about seeking HIM. Isn't that the basis of Enoch's standing with God--for whom he was seeking? Doesn't that seem to be the idea put forth in the few verses concerning Enoch in Hebrews 11?
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:51 pm
by Astronomer
Thank you for all your posts. All lot of it I had thought already, but some stuff was good to re-enforce and other stuff I had never thought about before.
Still, what are your thoughts on 1 John 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." (NIV)
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:12 pm
by Marvin D.
Have you read the ESV version? It's basically saying that if we make a practice of sin without remorse, we probably aren't of God. Big difference.
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:40 pm
by Astronomer
Marvin D. wrote:Have you read the ESV version? It's basically saying that if we make a practice of sin without remorse, we probably aren't of God. Big difference.
Yes, I like the wording in that much better. 'Make of practice of sinning' and 'continuing to sin' are quite different.
Thank you Marvin. You are quite helpful when you get serious.
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:48 pm
by Marvin D.
. .what are you saying, that I'm not serious?!
But seriously, sometimes certain versions are confusing. .that's why it's useful to read different ones
It helps a lot. I like HCSB a lot, so I'd recommend it.
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:49 pm
by Vic
I think that if we strive for perfection, we'll kill ourselves. (Impossible, you know) But because of our faith in Jesus, God sees Jesus' righteousness so trying to be perfect is not only impossible but pointless. Instead of striving for perfection, you should strive to bring glory to God.
Re: Perfection?
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:39 pm
by Termite
Which is living a life holy and blameless. And if we're told to be blameless, I feel we should work on it, which does bring glory to God.