Twilight or Harry Potter

[TigerintheShadows]

Ultimately, my opinion rests in this: if I were to watch a series filled with things God hates, how could I possibly grow closer to Him?

My father and I both read it; are you saying that because we do so and because we watch the movies--and to top it all off, we like them--we cannot grow closer to God? That's what it sounds like to me, and I heartily disagree.

[ric]

Ultimately, my opinion rests in this: if I were to watch a series filled with things God hates, how could I possibly grow closer to Him?

My father and I both read it; are you saying that because we do so and because we watch the movies--and to top it all off, we like them--we cannot grow closer to God? That's what it sounds like to me, and I heartily disagree.

I would heartily agree with AE. Wouldn't you agree that sinning keeps you from growing closer to God? And wouldn't you agree that doing something God hates is sin? But the whole debate is whether or not Harry Potter and such is something that God hates. And it doesn't look to me like AE is saying that HP is something God hates...I don't think.

Just to let you know, I am not saying that you or anyone else on this forum is sinning by watching HP or any other series. Thank you.

[American Eagle]

Ultimately, my opinion rests in this: if I were to watch a series filled with things God hates, how could I possibly grow closer to Him?

My father and I both read it; are you saying that because we do so and because we watch the movies--and to top it all off, we like them--we cannot grow closer to God? That's what it sounds like to me, and I heartily disagree.

I'll clarify. Can one grow closer to Christ when their lives aren't perfect? Certainly! All of us would be doomed otherwise. But, can you grow closer to God during your viewing of HP, or reading the books? Deuteronomy 18:10-11 says, "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer." God says not to be around these types of people. Why then are we so willing to enjoy movies/books about them? It's a good question.

[LizzieG]

Someday, I'd like to write something editorial-ish on this topic. Until then, I will say, based on my recent experience of rereading the final book, you can grow closer to God through reading the Harry Potter books -- Christian parallels (at least some of which are definitely intended), profound, thought-provoking.

[Marvin D.]

they both are LAME. I have never read the books, or seen the movies and I don't want to.

You're LAME. I've never met you, and I don't want to.


seriously?

That's mean. But it's also win.

Karen, sorry. I have never read the books or seen the movies either, but you can't call it lame if you haven't seen it.

Really? When it says "abstain from ALL appearances of evil", that includes things that I KNOW are evil. Smoking, drinking, more extreme topics (which I won't get into ), are evil, but does that mean I need to try them? So I can smoke and drink, become an addict, know it's bad, continue on my downwards path, and die. Just because I can't call them lame without trying them. So fun. If I appear cranky/sarcastic/mad on this, that's 'cause I AM. I really, really, really find it annoying. But, that's why. And also, that verse our illustrious mayor posted also is of proof on why it wouldn't even be good. I wouldn't watch a movie if I knew that all those characters would be killed if in Bible times.

And on the Passion movie, I wouldn't really reccomend it...but I won't get into it now. Ask me if you want to know.

[ric]

they both are LAME. I have never read the books, or seen the movies and I don't want to.

You're LAME. I've never met you, and I don't want to.


seriously?

That's mean. But it's also win.

Karen, sorry. I have never read the books or seen the movies either, but you can't call it lame if you haven't seen it.

Really? When it says "abstain from ALL appearances of evil", that includes things that I KNOW are evil. Smoking, drinking, more extreme topics (which I won't get into ), are evil, but does that mean I need to try them? So I can smoke and drink, become an addict, know it's bad, continue on my downwards path, and die. Just because I can't call them lame without trying them. So fun. If I appear cranky/sarcastic/mad on this, that's 'cause I AM. I really, really, really find it annoying. But, that's why. And also, that verse our illustrious mayor posted also is of proof on why it wouldn't even be good. I wouldn't watch a movie if I knew that all those characters would be killed if in Bible times.

And on the Passion movie, I wouldn't really reccomend it...but I won't get into it now. Ask me if you want to know.

Marvin, I understand and agree with what you're saying. But think about this:

"I don't watch Chronicles of Narnia because there's 'good magic' in it, and the Bible says to abstain from all appearance of evil, and magic is evil."

And then....

"So I think Chronicles of Narnia is lame."

Ya, evil is evil. But lame? Seriously? That's like saying Satan is lame. That's so petty. It even makes things seem less bad. If you really think it's evil, just say "I think Harry Potter is evil, so I'm not going to watch it." In my mind, lameness refers to the quality of the movie/book. Not the content.

And 'abstain from all appearances of evil'....What does that really mean? That is telling us to not do anything that is evil and not to even look like we're doing anything that is evil. Of course I think it's bad to watch things that glorify evil, but what about Left Behind? There's an appearance of evil in that.

You seem to think I'm saying to watch HP. Well, I'm not. But let's just think about this. Have you seen a movie that uses God's name in vain? Well, should that movie be called evil? I mean, it's one of the 10 Commandments. Just to clarify, I'm not trying to start a discussion about bad language, but if you say that magic is evil, and 1 Thess. 5:22 says to 'Abstain from all appearances of evil', and that means don't watch movies that contain evil (what God hates), why is it that so many people watch movies using God's name in vain? Why is it people seem to think some evils are worse than others?

Oh, and by the way, you said smoking and drinking are evil. Jesus drank wine. Give me a verse that says smoking an occasional cigar is evil?

Romans 14:17 says "For the Kingdom of Heaven is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of peace and joy in the Holy Spirit..." and the notes in my Bible say, "To be concerned with such trivial matters is to miss completely the essence of Christian living." Yes, my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, but one can smoke and drink occasionally without harming their body. But let's not get into that.

[jelly]

My biggest frustration with HP is blurring the lines between good and evil.

Thank you for this, AE.
You've actually put time and thought into what you personally believe is ok to watch and what you'd like to avoid. I have total respect for your opinion.
See, MY biggest frustration is all the kids (and parents) who stand around and rant about how HP is "evil and it teaches you witchcraft and blah blah blah" without actually knowing anything about the books themselves.

I highly recommend everyone to actually read (or at least do a lot of research) a book like HP... and then determine for themselves if it's something they think should be avoided; is harmless; or, as Lizzie mentioned, may actually give you thought-provoking Christian parallels. Think about it.

[ric]

I highly recommend everyone to actually read (or at least do a lot of research) a book like HP... and then determine for themselves if it's something they think should be avoided; is harmless; or, as Lizzie mentioned, may actually give you thought-provoking Christian parallels. Think about it.

Well, I don't intend to, but I'm not going to judge the series or anyone who reads it.

[jelly]

I highly recommend everyone to actually read (or at least do a lot of research) a book like HP... and then determine for themselves if it's something they think should be avoided; is harmless; or, as Lizzie mentioned, may actually give you thought-provoking Christian parallels. Think about it.

Well, I don't intend to, but I'm not going to judge the series or anyone who reads it.

attaboy.

[American Eagle]

Give me a verse that says smoking an occasional cigar is evil?

Hahaha... that's like the oldest trick in the book. I heard a good thought on this. Yes, smoking is never mentioned in the Bible, but look at it this way. Every time you take a cigarette out of the box, pray, "God, I thank You so much for this cigarette. Please bless it to my body, and I do this for Your glory. In Jesus' Name, Amen."

Seriously, if you can do that without feeling the slightest bit... guilty, smoke away!

I noticed a mention of Narnia. I highly recommend you all watch this clip from The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (it's not embeddable, yet).

I shall be watching you, always. In your world, I have another name. You must learn to know Me by it. That was the very reason you were brought to Narnia. That by knowing Me here for a little, you may know Me better there. [This is why I believe Narnia is different than HP.]

But as ric said, I have no interest in judging my brother and sisters in Christ who are fans of HP. I'm a worse sinner than you all; no kidding.

[ric]

Give me a verse that says smoking an occasional cigar is evil?

Hahaha... that's like the oldest trick in the book. I heard a good thought on this. Yes, smoking is never mentioned in the Bible, but look at it this way. Every time you take a cigarette out of the box, pray, "God, I thank You so much for this cigarette. Please bless it to my body, and I do this for Your glory. In Jesus' Name, Amen."

Seriously, if you can do that without feeling the slightest bit... guilty, smoke away!

Ya, that's funny. So, do you say 'Please bless this to my body' etc. when you drink Mountain Dew?
But I'm pretty sure cigars don't harm your body.... That's probably wrong but I heard it from Dennis Prager....

Oh, and by the way, I'm not planning on smoking or drinking anytime soon.

I shall be watching you, always. In your world, I have another name. You must learn to know Me by it. That was the very reason you were brought to Narnia. That by knowing Me here for a little, you may know Me better there. [This is why I believe Narnia is different than HP.]

That's a great quote.

[TigerintheShadows]

See, MY biggest frustration is all the kids (and parents) who stand around and rant about how HP is "evil and it teaches you witchcraft and blah blah blah" without actually knowing anything about the books themselves.

I've always seen that as them thinking that we as fans take it too seriously, when it's really them that's pulling it as Serious Business (well, besides the Harmonians--don't even get me started).

[The Top Crusader]

Give me a verse that says smoking an occasional cigar is evil?

Hahaha... that's like the oldest trick in the book. I heard a good thought on this. Yes, smoking is never mentioned in the Bible, but look at it this way. Every time you take a cigarette out of the box, pray, "God, I thank You so much for this cigarette. Please bless it to my body, and I do this for Your glory. In Jesus' Name, Amen."

Seriously, if you can do that without feeling the slightest bit... guilty, smoke away!

Well, others have pointed it out, but you basically can't take a chip out of a bag of Doritos and pray that without feeling a slight bit guilty. I mean... yeah, a big hunk of meat might be fatty but at least has necessary proteins... but most junk food like chips or candy or twinkies or Mountain Dew, etc, has no worthwhile goodness for a person... in fact, while I doubt anyone is going to volunteer to experiment on the matter, it would probably be healthier to add a pack of 20 cigarettes to your daily intake then it would be to add a pack of 20 Snickers bars.

I'm STRAIGHT EDGE TO THE MAX (except for... over the counter drugs. >_>) and have never had any tobacco or alcohol, but they are hardly at all harmful in moderation.

Oh, wait, this is about Harry Potter...

[Bennett]

Wow. I can't believe I've missed out on this topic.

In my opinion, Harry Potter isn't for kids. But as anyone who has read the books knows, it certainly isn't harmful. It's like any other fairy tale, or kids book in the past--that's how I view it. If we apply arguments of "well it's witchcraft", then we would have to do the same in "Narnia". And while Harry Potter is certainly not a "Christian book" (however you define it), there are certainly quite a few Christian themes in them. Potter teaches sacrifice, love, the fight between good over evil. Yes, these can be found in most objectionable books, but I truly believe that one cannot continue the late 90s early millennium Christian trend of "Potter is bad because it's popular and has magic". As Reading Rainbow would say "Take a look, it's in a book", and find out for yourself. I'm not one to normally approve of such things, but after reading them critically, I think that Rowling puts a clear line between what is considered good and what is considered evil in her fictional universe.

I haven't read Twilight, but from what I've heard, it's a lot worse. I disapprove of them because I've seen the first film and disapprove of the lifestyle shown in them.

[Termite]

I like how everyone thinks Twilight is this sexual raging hormone fest... And it's not. Seriously. There is lust and obsession, but I have read FAR worse. (*winces* not on purpose, but still... baaad mental images.) It's more all the 'subliminal message' stuff that's in it. And Edward stinks as a vampire.

EDIT: Though the fourth one was more borderline, I think. I really should read it....

[American Eagle]

So we're using the "it's not bad because I've read worse stuff" argument?

[Shadowfax]

I just like the werewolves. Especially James.

And Harry's ugly. So why would anyone like Harry Potter?

*Note: I have not seen either movie. I am basing my conclusions on mere pictures. Done.

[Termite]

So we're using the "it's not bad because I've read worse stuff" argument?

YES.

I never said it's not bad, just that it's not a book written by Satan like some people seem think. I see no reason to read it, but generalizing and sticking it in the category of The Princess Diaries (book series) is wrong, imo.

[jelly]

Any book that's not written by a Christian is evil and should be completely avoided.


Right?

[ric]

Any book that's not written by a Christian is evil and should be completely avoided.


Right?

Wrong.


No offense, but do you really think people believe that?