Harry Potter

[Termite]

Luke 6:42
How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

There you go.

[Marvin D.]

1. Reading gets stuck in your head. Can you name the main characters of the book? Yes you can. I can't. I don't watch it. The only character I know, besides Harry, is Ron and Lord Voldemort.

You remember more then me, and I've seen the movies Harry Potter is the only name I remember...and that's because that's what it's called.

2. There are no different forms of sin, yes. But...if we watch Harry Potter, right after we do it, we fall on our knees and pray, "O Lord, forgive me for watching HP on purpose. I know it was wrong, but I couldn't resist."? I don't think so. We know it's wrong! And that's coming from DAM and TINT. So if your mom grounds you for say, telling a lie, which is SIN, she has to ground you for watching HP, which is sin. And that's what TINT said.

Lately, while rereading over this thread...and different debates in CCDS I can't seem to get the Bible verse out of my head. I don't have the exact location, nor the exact words but I remember Jesus said to "not try to take the stick out of your brother's eye until you remove the log out of your own." In other words, people who don't like Harry Potter shouldn't judge others for them liking it. If it's wrong to read or to watch HP then let God deal with them, and not us.

Perhaps, so it means that when one person is obiviously doing wrong, we're supposed to sit by and watch them?

[Termite]

It's only "obviously wrong" to you, Marvin. You're arguing in circles. What people decide is between themself and God. If you really want to debate it, I think you should make a thread in CCDS. Or just let it rest. Everyone has said their piece, so frankly I think it's time to let it go in this thread.....

[TigerintheShadows]

What's CCDS? I'm confused.

[StrongNChrist]

Campbell College Debate Sociaty.

[TigerintheShadows]

OOOOOh. I get it! Thanks, StrongNChrist!

[Marvin D.]

It's only "obviously wrong" to you, Marvin. You're arguing in circles. What people decide is between themself and God. If you really want to debate it, I think you should make a thread in CCDS. Or just let it rest. Everyone has said their piece, so frankly I think it's time to let it go in this thread.....

Fine. But before....one good long rant...

The Bible is clearly against witchcraft, right?? The Witch of Endor, for one. And if it's against it, that's a sin. And if lying is a sin, so is witchcraft. so if your Mom spanked you for lying, she could do the same about watching HP, right? Now if you say "What about the Chronicles of Narnia? There's withcraft." True! But...who uses it? The White Witch, or as she calls herself, the Queen of Narnia. And she represents all evil, correct? And in the end she get destroyed. Aslan doesn't use witchcraft, does he? Nope. So that's why it's OK to watch that. So in short, HP is a sin.

Nerd rant over.

Say what I said wrong.

[Termite]

You have yet to differentiate between witchcraft and magic. Or are they the same?

In that case, read these quotes:

"Work against the Emporer's magic?" said Aslan, turning to her (Susan) with something like a frown on his face. And nobody ever made that suggestion to him again. (p. 140 LWW)


"Yes!" said a great voice behind their backs. "It is more magic!.......It means," said Aslan, "that though the Witch knew the Deep Magic, there is a magic deeper still which she did not know."
(Aslan speaking of his resurrection, p.159 LWW)


However, that might be, it was proved later that there was still magic in its wood....And though he himself did not discover the magic properties of that wardrobe, someone else did. (speaking of the tree turned wardrobe, p.185 MN it is also mentioned earlier that the apples from the tree were not 'fully magical' because the tree grew in England, but that the trees in Narnia DID have magical fruit)


The definition of witchcraft is:
1. the art or practices of a witch; sorcery; magic.
2. magical influence; witchery.

The synonym being 'magic' itself.

So in that sense, would you say that because Aslan is Jesus in the books that his magic is ok? You could, but I'd say that is a double standard. Either it's wrong or it isn't.

I have seen Harry Potter's called magic or sorcery. Since he's trying to bring right to England, in the same sense that Aslan's is ok his (HP) magic would be also.

So in short, The Chronicles of Narnia is a sin then, by your own logic. Or is it not, along with Harry Potter? Or both? You can't pick between two different ones just because one is secular and one is not. Magic is magic.

[Marvin D.]

Excuse me. Aslan is being symbolic, but Harry USES the magic for ordinary life. And there is a difference. Ever heard of white and black magic? HP uses black. White is sort of like what Aslan uses, because in a sense we could say the Resurrection was magic. And HP often does the exact opposite of what he is supposed to do. Narnia isn't a sin because it's an allegory, HP, is reality.

[Termite]

Either magic is magic or it isn't. Black, red, white: it doesn't matter. It doesn't change the core of it.

And you can't bring the real Resurrection into this, cause in NO way does it compare to magic. You can't even go there.

One more thing... You said you haven't read or seen Harry Potter. So honestly? I can't take this debate seriously cause you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the Harry Potter books/movies. Harsh? Yes, but it's true. That's why I read The Twilight Saga. I wanted to know how to debate against it, and now I do.

Harry Potter is the epitomy of a normal person. We all make mistakes, we do what we're not supposed to... And I'm sorry, but I found your last sentence funny. Harry Potter is fantasy. There's nothing real to it except that it's placed in a fantasy-turned England.

[Marvin D.]

It is fantasy, but everybody who read it watned to go to that school. We have the whole movie against Harry Potter. Magic is magic, yes, but there are 2 sorts. So no more magic tricks!

[Termite]

It is fantasy, but everybody who read it watned to go to that school. We have the whole movie against Harry Potter.

I want to go to Middle Earth, to be perfectly honest... Not even joking.

Magic is magic, yes, but there are 2 sorts. So no more magic tricks!

Do you think magic is wrong or do you not?

[Marvin D.]

It is fantasy, but everybody who read it watned to go to that school. We have the whole movie against Harry Potter.

I want to go to Middle Earth, to be perfectly honest... Not even joking.

Magic is magic, yes, but there are 2 sorts. So no more magic tricks!

Do you think magic is wrong or do you not?

Let me explain. MOST magic is wrong. Otherwise I couldn't do card tricks anymore. HP's is clearly wrong.

[Termite]

....There's a big difference between sleight of hand and magic, Marvin. =P

[Marvin D.]

Yes, but they are all magic. So that's my point.

[Termite]

Sleight of hand isn't magic, though. It's just 'the hand is quicker than the eye', literally. There's no magic involved.

[StrongNChrist]

My brother does card tricks......there is no magic whatsoever involved in card tricks. It's just sleight of hand, practice, and planning ahead.

So here's the question, Marvin. How do you decide which magic is good and which is bad?

[Marvin D.]

Simple, Read This:

9 When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to (A)imitate the detestable things of those nations.
10There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,

11or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

12For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and (E)because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you.

13You shall be blameless before the LORD your God.

And in TLB it is referred to as black magic.

[TigerintheShadows]

So in short, HP is a sin.

So, because there is usage of magic--EVEN BY THE GOOD GUYS--in Narnia and Lord of the Rings (both of which are generally acceptable for Christians as good lit), does that mean that reading those books is a sin, too?

I want to ask here a question I had that was not quite answered earlier--how is reading the books sinful? You can, indeed, read something and not let yourself get completely consumed with it. It is, granted, a sin if indeed your parent or guardian does not wish for you to read it. But if you're allowed to, how is it sinful?

1 Corinthians 8:7 states, "However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled."

Take this--and its accompanying passage--how you will.

[Elrohir]

So in short, HP is a sin.

So, because there is usage of magic--EVEN BY THE GOOD GUYS--in Narnia and Lord of the Rings (both of which are generally acceptable for Christians as good lit), does that mean that reading those books is a sin, too?

That's not exactly true. Again, I would ask the question no one here has answered. What is magic? What does it mean in the Bible? What does it mean today? What does it mean in Harry Potter? What does it mean in Narnia or LotR? Most of us don't have personal experience with what the Bible calls magic, including the authors of HP, Narnia, and LotR. So just because they use the same word, it doesn't mean they mean the same thing. Witchcraft in the Bible is trying to manipulate things with the help of angels/demons. HP, Narnia, and LotR never do that. All 3 take place in an imaginary world where people are born with different natural abilities than the real world. Calling it real magic is like calling Superman magic because of his powers. But no one does that simply because the comics and movies never use that word. If they did, it would still be the same, but you'd have legalistic Christians who don't have a clue as to what they're talking about saying that watching Superman is a sin.