Tom will Fall, as Darien will rise

Whit's wiping down the counter, Connie's mopping the floor, and the kids are sipping on their milkshakes. If you want to talk about Adventures in Odyssey the radio drama, this is the spot to do just that!
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Bennett
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Tom will Fall, as Darien will rise

Post by Bennett »

I haven't been around here for a while, and chances are people have speculated this topic to death, but I find that this rumor about "Darien's Rise" as an episode of Adventures in Odyssey to be really intriguing. Is this true?

A while back, once I had learned about Tom Riley's death, I sat back, and thought I had lost a childhood friend. Selfishly, the first thing I thought about was how they were going to solve this problem. First of all, there were so many loose endings to his story that would have to be cleaned up. Admittedly, however, Odyssey has a habit of having loose endings...watching characters slowly disappear off screen (or off mic).

But what about Agnes Riley? What about Timothy? Agnes is dying...Timmy is Dead...But both these characters were, in a sense, coming to life, right?

After all, Agnes Riley, went through a dramatic rehabilitation back in "The Pact" and re-lived her wedding vows, soon after the tragic events during the Novacom Saga. Also, Timothy had been brought alive through "Passages", in a sense that he was momentarily part of another world that was never known about. Do we know what happened to Tom Riley after that bit? Do we know whether he continued searching for the truth about where his son went? It seems to me, knowing Tom, he would have kept up the search.

Tom's search for Marus makes for a perfect way that I would let Tom leave the world of Odyssey. What if Tom made it to Marus? What if these new episodes are Odyssey's way of "killing" Tom off? He doesn't die. Afterall, you can't kill Tom...because you've got too much of an unsatisfactory loose end with his dying wife being left behind in Odyssey. Maybe he'll take her with him. What if, like playing-off of the a journal-like style in "Passages", characters from Odyssey search for Tom in our world, only to find out he made it to the world that made Timmy so happy before his death. In a sense, Marus would metaphorically represent Heaven. And like Heaven, Tom will remain in Marus forever...staying there, because, evidently he firmly believed the truth that it was real. In a way, Timothy's journal symbolizes the Bible...you either believe its words or you don't.

So, Darien's Rise, being the season opener, leads me to HOPE something like that would happen. It just seems to make sense since the last journey to Marus on Odyssey has to do with Tom and Timmy...and yet, Tom will no longer be around.

But that's just me speculating. "Passages" felt like such a random episode in the grander scheme of the series, that its too strange that they'll bringing it back unless it was for a good reason.
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Post by KODY 105 »

I don't tend to use such emblems, but I feel obligated to post: O_o

That sounds a lot like the Narnia book series.
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Post by Jacob Isom »

I can't help but post either.

There. I just posted.

Actually, I think this would be an interesting way to see final Tom's journey away from Odyssey. I'm not sure if I would agree with having him confirmed to having left Odyssey to the world of Marus. I'd rather have it left open-ended with the characters considering it a possibility after having searched and found Timmy's journal's lying around with clues that Tom had been doing some searching for himself. I don't want to see it definite that Tom has left and made it to Marus. I'd rather be left wondering. After all, Odyssey is a place of "wonder," excitement, and discovery.

Or maybe Tom will just die or leave?
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Post by Chandler »

Interesting thoughts, Bennett. I was wondering if they were going to record all six of the Passages books and include the beginnings and endings with Whit and Jack finding the manuscripts and such. But maybe they'll change it like you said. :-k
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Post by Evil Chick »

That is a very interesting thought! I like it, although I would have to agree with Jacob, I would like it better if it were left open-ended.

Although, I still like the idea of having the character of Tom die, and having an episode dealing with deal. Yes, it would be very painful. But death is painful in real life.
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Post by Dallas R. »

Interesting idea. I can see the connections, but I think it's too fake. I know Odyssey isn't always realistic, but having a main character run off and live in a different world without hearing from that character, would be strange and devastating.

I definitely agree with hairbrush. Yes, it would be hard to see a character we all know and love die, but it would open a lot of new ideas, and we could see how our main characters deal with it.
I also don't think that it would cause devastation in the other Tom related story lines. Part of the episode would deal with Agnes dealing with it in her own way, and then have Whit or someone promising to watch after her.
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Post by Boswell »

Jacob Isom wrote:I'd rather have it left open-ended with the characters considering it a possibility after having searched and found Timmy's journal's lying around with clues that Tom had been doing some searching for himself.
If they did it this way, they wouldn't even need to use an actor for Tom. The whole thing could be a search where they never actually find him. Walker recorded enough lines that they could probably through in some well-chosen recycled dialogue near the beginning and/or end.
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Post by Pseudonym »

It does sound intriguing, but I'd feel cheated if that were to happen. People from Odyssey running off into "HAPPY FAERIE LAND" does not sound realistic at all. I know Odyssey isn't always realistic, (Novacom trying to mind-control the world! :shock:) but people travelling to other dimensions and staying there would just be too much. I really didn't like "Passages" because of the whole go-to-another-world thing. It sounds like something to be left to fantasy books.
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Post by Jonathan »

Dallas R. wrote:Interesting idea. I can see the connections, but I think it's too fake. I know Odyssey isn't always realistic, but having a main character run off and live in a different world without hearing from that character, would be strange and devastating.
I agree with this. I have a habit of viewing Odyssey as very realistic, so this would be a bit of a strech for me.
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Post by Mrs Jason Whittaker »

I think Tom should die. As for the loose ends--well that happens in real life. People die at inconvenient times.
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Post by Gandalf »

As a long time lurker and only rare poster, I'm going to jump in this real quick:
Dallas R. wrote:Interesting idea. I can see the connections, but I think it's too fake. I know Odyssey isn't always realistic, but having a main character run off and live in a different world without hearing from that character, would be strange and devastating.
I'm in complete agreement here. AIO has the chance to do something really meaningful with Tom's exit from the show; I hope they have the courage to do it. This honestly seems like the coward's way out: Tom doesn't really die, he just goes off to a different world.

The comparisons with Narnia are interesting but I think seriously flawed; the 7 characters who end up in Narnia at the end of "The Last Battle" have all clearly died in the books: there was a train wreck. They are dead. I wouldn't mind it if AIO decided to incorporate Passages as a way of having Tom die, but to have him disappear to Marius instead of dying is cheap and weird. Narnia has a way of making one believe that such a thing is possible within God's creation, as do the original Passages books; the scenario presented here is the exact opposite effect.

As for the loose-ends: Guess what? Life leaves loose-ends too. It's realistic for a man of Tom's age to pass-away before his (apparently) younger wife, whatever her mental condition may be. I would rather AIO continue to leave some loose-ends and be more realistic than completely deviate from real life. Sad as it is, some mental patients end up in homes where no one visits them for years before they pass on.

Taking this idea further though, I really think AIO should do something about Whit too. He's ancient. Having been a young man in WWII, he must be at least 84 years. It's just not realistic to have him traipsing around the world doing international espionage type stuff a la "The Other Side of the Glass" and "The Accidental Dilemma" anymore. These types of shows are great, but a little shred of realism would be greatly appreciated. It's more realistic for him to be on dialysis, have memory problems, physical problems, and become tired easily. If done right, this wouldn't damage the quality of the program, just make it more realistic.

I'm a firm believer that AIO should be in the process of moving characters like Whit, Tom, Bernard, and Jack out while growing and developing characters like Jason, Eugene, Connie, Wooton, etc.

This is real life: people age and die. I don't think AIO would do anyone any favors by sugar coating that. They weren't afraid to deal with these types of weighty issues back in 1992 with "The Mortal Coil" or even in 1995 with "A Touch of Healing" and "Where Is Thy Sting?". I hope they have the nerve to deal with these issues in mature and realistic (not to mention deeply Christian) ways now.
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Post by The Top Crusader »

Yeeeaahhh.... I dunno, I don't follow the Passages stuff so maybe I shouldn't really comment, but from what I understand of it, it would just shatter the realistic angle AIO has mostly maintained in its 20ish years.

Though they could go the Simpsons route when the character Poochie was no longer popular on the Itchy and Scratchy show and have him ascend into a UFO and die when a meteor strikes it on his way back to his home planet. \:D/
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Post by Bennett »

We seem to be talking about realistic angle of Odyssey. Odyssey has never purely gone into science-fiction, or fantasy *completely*. But first off, we have had"Passages" as an episode--would u call that realistic. And again, the rumor is that the "season" is starting up with "Darien's Rise". Is that not already shattering the realistic angle of Odyssey? Anything more is 'hardly' a shatter.

After all, we've got from taking over Odyssey, to taking over viruses, to taking over brains, to taking over the world...Maybe Odyssey is ready for other worlds.

Yes, Odyssey has always played on the "supposal" side of things. Maybe Jimmy Barclay's adventure in "Someone to Watch Over Me" never really happened, but it always gave us the possibility that it "mightv'e". Same goes with the Passages. The truth is, many of these episodes will leave us with enough skepticism that we can at least be 1% certain that whatever happened DIDN'T happen

But I agree with Jacob Isom, that I would rather them leave it slightly up to that same skepticism by the time the episode winds down. Did Walker make it there? Who knows.

Getting off the Tom subject, it's interesting to know how Odyssey will handle these stories. Will they follow the Whit and Jack storyline, which will have us wondering alongside with them?

If they only make episode, they'll have a hard time incorporating the *Prologue* of the books into the episode. The *prologue* is what ties these books together; as we follow Jack and Whit's journey in their discovery, and more importantly, their belief over the tales. Assuming that, we must now assume that they will make a "new" prologue for the episode...or at least, deviate slightly from it.

The only way they could not change them at all, would be to make all the books. But if they did that, it would be an odd season wouldn't it?

But looking at the story of Darien's rise. Isn't it about two children simply walking throughout the forest and then finding this world in an abandoned cabin? Difficult to know how they'll alter even that part--if they do decide to shed some light on the Tom issue.

So many questions...
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Post by Gandalf »

AIO has always done things that border-line on unrealistic; we can all agree on that! But within all of their unrealistic storylines, they always are in the realm of the plausible (unless they are KYDS radio, Imagination Station, etc.). They don't contradict God's laws of nature

This idea is not only unrealistic, but it borderlines on unScriptural. Death is an important part of life for Christians; for Tom to be able to escape death into a different world, even providing that a Christian worldview allows for other worlds, is preposterous. It's simply not real life and can't be within the realm of a Christian worldview. I would take it as the writers chickening out on dealing with a vitally important issue.

That's not to say that the idea couldn't be developed or that Marius couldn't be incorporated in easing Tom's passing. If they chose to do a Narnia type element wherein Tom discovers he has died when he went to Marius (as in "The Last Battle), I would be okay with that, though an episode or two of the other character's grieving would still be appropriate.

My curiosity is peaked here. Do we know that "Darien's Rise" is going to be an AIO episode or could it possibly be a "Special Feature" a la Last Chance Detectives? I'd love for them to do the books, but the prologue is important. Though, I suppose, they could be redone with new intros. They could even take place in the Imagination Station...[/i]
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Post by Chandler »

Good to see both of you posting again, Bennett and Gandalf. It's been a long time. :) Minor point but the country in Passages is called Marus.

It was confirmed that AIO recorded "Darien's Rise." Now, on Odyssey Fan's website is says, "Paul McCusker recently confirmed that AIO will resume this fall starting with a dramatization of 'Darien's Rise'." So it appears that it will be part of the regular programming. Whether or not they intend to dramatize the other books isn't clear.
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Post by Peachey Keen »

I think I should start talking hear too.

I've just listened to the last scene in The Imagination Station,Revisited and heard the part where Connie pushes the red button on the radio-type thing.Maybe AIO will tell the story of Darien's Rise through that because Paul McCusker said that DR will be in the new season and the new season will start with what happened when Connie pushed the button(It's been confirmed on the OAIOP).As Tom said,"I wonder..."
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Post by Trent DeWhite »

I completely forgot about the correlation between Passages and Timmy - and hence, the potential connection between Passages and Tom. It almost seems fitting that Tom would move on from Odyssey by finding the same world that his son once discovered. Although this would certainly seem less "realistic," it would be far from inconceivable. At least not any less believable than episodes like Malachi's Message or Blackgaard's Revenge. Odyssey has always pushed the boundaries of plausibility without going overboard - there's always the possibility that it could happen. And that's what I find so fascinating about the show. It encourages the audience to ask the question, "What if...?" At the same time, it doesn't become completely fantastical by delving too deeply into the science-fiction realm.

With that all said, let's consider the possible directions Odyssey could take with Tom's character:

1. Tom dies in Odyssey.

This is perhaps the most obvious solution to the dilemma and yet it seems almost too obvious. While I agree with Evil Chick that it would be beneficial to have an episode dealing with death, I think we've had enough episodes dealing with that subject, such as Where is Thy Sting, Karen, and The Very Best of Friends. Hence, I don't think it needs to be a straight-forward episode responding to his death. If Tom dies in Odyssey, I think this would also be the best way to permanently phase Agnes out of the show - not that she was ever a major character, but it would be a nice way to have some closure on the entire Riley family.

2. Tom moves away.

Again, this is another obvious course of action the writers could take. But I question how satisfactory this would be since the writers would, of course, be forced to explain Tom's reason for leaving. Since most people are aware of Walker's passing, I can't imagine the writers would leave much hope for Tom's return. This would likely be a Hal Smith type scenario, whereby they would write him off the show in such a way that they could bring him back if a replacement actor was found. I'd be interested to know if the writers are even interested in finding a replacement actor in the first place. As sad as it is that Walker is no longer with us, I could live with having Tom's character dropped from the show completey.

3. Tom finds Marus and is never heard from again.

I think this idea is brilliant, to be perfectly honest. Like Gandalf suggested, it would be very similar to what C.S. Lewis did in The Last Battle. On the other hand, with such a storyline comes a plethora of questions. How did Tom enter Marus? What happened to his body? How did he "die"? Is Marus equivalent to heaven? I find the plausibility of this particular scenario much more difficult to swallow, although I'd definitely be open to it if the writers offered a reasonable explanation for Tom's disappearance.
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Post by Oba-rai »

Trent DeWhite wrote:2. Tom moves away.

Again, this is another obvious course of action the writers could take. But I question how satisfactory this would be since the writers would, of course, be forced to explain Tom's reason for leaving. Since most people are aware of Walker's passing, I can't imagine the writers would leave much hope for Tom's return. This would likely be a Hal Smith type scenario, whereby they would write him off the show in such a way that they could bring him back if a replacement actor was found. I'd be interested to know if the writers are even interested in finding a replacement actor in the first place. As sad as it is that Walker is no longer with us, I could live with having Tom's character dropped from the show completey.
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Post by Chandler »

Trent DeWhite wrote:3. Tom finds Marus and is never heard from again.

I think this idea is brilliant, to be perfectly honest. Like Gandalf suggested, it would be very similar to what C.S. Lewis did in The Last Battle. On the other hand, with such a storyline comes a plethora of questions. How did Tom enter Marus? What happened to his body? How did he "die"? Is Marus equivalent to heaven? I find the plausibility of this particular scenario much more difficult to swallow, although I'd definitely be open to it if the writers offered a reasonable explanation for Tom's disappearance.
I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet but this sounds like what happened in the Passages books with the man named James who was living at Hillingdale Haven.
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Post by King Butter Turtle »

First of all, I don't agree that Tom is in any active storylines soley worthy of keeping his character alive. Agnes is not major enough and I don't see her condition as worsening, and Timmy was pretty much wrapped up a while ago. (and by that, I mean before I was born ;) )

Second, if they were to send Tom to Marus, it would have nothing to do with Darien's Rise. It wouldn't be able to tell the same story as the book and therefore, in the episode which odysseyfan.com states as "Darien's Rise", I doubt Tom would go to Marus. If they're not going to follow the Darien's Rise storyline, why would they call it that?
Bennett wrote:Marus would metaphorically represent Heaven
Minus the war and conflict. ;) Granted I've never read The Last Battle so I might be slightly misunderstanding, but I find the idea of anyone dying and going anywhere but heaven or hell absolutly unchristian.

Finally, just for the sake of throwing out another idea, although I highly doubt it would happen, what about Alice. The woman who experienced Marus with Timmy as a girl and was the first to tell Tom about it, because she was dying of Cancer. Maybe, anyone who's ever been to Marus and came back, doesn't really die, but goes to Marus (again, I even find my own idea questionably biblical), so when Tom goes there he finds Alice and Timmy (who are married of course :inlove: ) and the three of them go on an adventure, Tom (who we found has gotten some terminal illness) discovers he is healed in Marus, so he goes back to get Agnes, when both of them die and meet Alice and Timmy in a heavan scene. The end!

Haha, way too far fetched, I know, but the idea of Alice or her family somehow coming back into play, would be very entertaining.
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