The Golden Compass

jasonjannajerryjohn · Post by **jasonjannajerryjohn** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:56 pm

I'm copying and pasting these from a vid off of Youtube, I thought that it would be more convienient here, but the original video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLc8mS7T7Cg
If you look at the original video, I am jackskellingtonsora fyi.

JJJJ wrote:Why do we, as Christians, make a big fuss about this movie? When The Chronicals of Narnia came out a few years ago, I didn't hear any atheists coming out and saying that it was a slam against atheism, which it is by the way.
Oh yeah, this series is an atheist allegory as Pullman said it was. Obviously Narnia is a Christian allegory. C.S. Lewis even said so.
You do know that people love it when we Christians get mad about something.

And, actually, C. S. Lewis was an atheist. He actually became a Christian by reading the Bible and doing a ton of research. He was actually trying to disprove Christianity, but in so doing, became a Christian.

btw, I'm a big Narnia fan, but not so much Golden Compass fan. Truthfully, I found it hard to get into. I'm not trying to be mean and nasty or anything. I just personnaly didn't like it. Not because of religion, but because I just didn't really like the book.

lol, I have a plus comment and a minus comment on here.But seriously, we as Christians shouldn't be making a big fuss. Yes, Golden Compass is very very obviously a slam against Christianity. The church and the organization around it, the Magisterum, are the bad guys. Ya, I'd say that's a slam against Christianity. However, atheists didn't make a big fuss and say that Narnia is a slam against Atheism, even though it is. So why are we making such a big fuss.

And also, when I read GC, I found it boring. I'm not trying to be mean, but I just thought it was boring. I started reading it knowing full well that it was going to be atheist, but I stopped about when they said something about armor for a polar bear. It was just boring.

Before I start, I want to make one thing perfectly clear: I totally respect Pullman and his work. I am a Christian, yes, however I respect his work.
Ok, now I've watched the movie. We rented a copy from Movie Gallery. I know the story. The ending screams "SEQUAL!!!" And of corse endings like that really aren't very good in any movie. The movie as a whole wasn't that great. It was lackluster at best. The movie dragged on and on in some places. It really wasn't that great of a movie to be honest.

One more thing, yes the golden Compass is very obviously Atheist. I don't really care of corse though, it dosen't bug me to have an atheist film out there. Any more than atheists care about having a Christian film out there.

With the Magisterum being based around the "church" and them being the bad guys... and with words like "heresy." It's kind of obvious, unless you really aren't paying attention.

Again, I do really respect Pullman and his work.

I do also have a commentary on the vid, but it would make no sense to post it here.

SivartM · Post by **SivartM** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:05 pm

Atheists usually don't seem to hate Narnia as much because it's easier to ignore the Christianity. However, Pullman is strongly anti-Christian and his books are obviously anti-Christian, whereas Narnia is more of a matter of interpretation. A former nun saying that Christianity is a mistake is not a matter of interpretation.
The problem Christians have is not exactly with the movie, since they apparently (I haven't seen it myself) watered down the atheism in it. The problem is that kids will see the movie and then read the books, and since children are somewhat impressionable, there's a good chance that they'll buy Pullman's propaganda.
Should Christians be okay with something unGodly simply because atheists don't care as much as us? Doesn't it make more sense to care?
It's not about being fair to atheists. They dominate the movie market. Atheism is everywhere. I don't think that Christians sitting back and shrugging is being fair. Whatever happened to standing up for what you believe?

^ my two cents

Jennifer Doyle · Post by **Jennifer Doyle** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:43 pm

I don't believe that Christianity slams atheism and that is certainly not the intent behind the books by C.S. Lewis or the movie.

The Chronicles of Narnia do not make atheists the "bad guys". The Golden Compass does make God the "bad guy", if I'm not mistaken.

It's a big deal because God and Christ are real and the ideas and theories that attempt to support atheism are fiction novels that sell well at BEST.

jasonjannajerryjohn · Post by **jasonjannajerryjohn** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:58 pm

SivartM wrote:It's not about being fair to atheists. They dominate the movie market. Atheism is everywhere. I don't think that Christians sitting back and shrugging is being fair. Whatever happened to standing up for what you believe?

The thing is, we are supposed to be fair, and have healthy debate. They may dominate the movie market in some spots, but so do we. We have all those fantasy films, Golden Compass notwithstanding. I am standing up for what I believe, why do you think I spent all my time resurching and posting those comments. If I wasn't standing up for what I believe, I wouldn't care at all.

I recommend this video, I agree with what this person is saying on it, and it is in Christian perspective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ7TkRlm ... re=related

Jennifer Doyle · Post by **Jennifer Doyle** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:03 pm

Christians don't dominate anything that has to do with popular media...it's not about debate...it's about right and wrong.

SivartM · Post by **SivartM** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:58 am

Sharpie wrote:
SivartM wrote:It's not about being fair to atheists. They dominate the movie market. Atheism is everywhere. I don't think that Christians sitting back and shrugging is being fair. Whatever happened to standing up for what you believe?
The thing is, we are supposed to be fair, and have healthy debate. They may dominate the movie market in some spots, but so do we. We have all those fantasy films, Golden Compass notwithstanding. I am standing up for what I believe, why do you think I spent all my time resurching and posting those comments. If I wasn't standing up for what I believe, I wouldn't care at all.

I recommend this video, I agree with what this person is saying on it, and it is in Christian perspective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ7TkRlm ... re=related

"All those fantasy films"? I'm pretty sure that there are quite a few non-Christian fantasy films.

As JD said, we certainly don't dominate the popular media.

I watched that video, and while she made some good points about how "it's not the real God", I'm pretty sure that's not the point of the books. The point of the books is not "kill the ritualistic God so you can see the real One", it's "Christianity's God is a ritualistic liar". Should we be promoting (or even just okaying) books that have a wrong view of God? If I was not a Christian and I read the books, I wouldn't be thinking, "Wow, the real God must be nice!", I'd be thinking, "Good riddance! Christians sure are stupid."

mike_rowe · Post by **mike_rowe** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:37 pm

i have a friend named JD!

AioMan · Post by **AioMan** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:36 am

Even if the atheists don't react at all to Narnia, that shouldn't change our views/opinions on The Golden Compass. Why should we decide to compromise our morals because a film with Christian allegories didn't get much opposition from atheists? Should they define our morals?

Kait · Post by **Kait** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:56 am

SivartM wrote:The problem is that kids will see the movie and then read the books, and since children are somewhat impressionable, there's a good chance that they'll buy Pullman's propaganda.
Should Christians be okay with something unGodly simply because atheists don't care as much as us? Doesn't it make more sense to care?
It's not about being fair to atheists. They dominate the movie market. Atheism is everywhere. I don't think that Christians sitting back and shrugging is being fair. Whatever happened to standing up for what you believe?

^ my two cents

The symbolism and metaphors in the books are so...rather obscure, that they would totally go over the heads of children. And his agenda is more anti-church (specifically the catholic church) rather than anti-God.

If I were a 10, 11 or 12 year old reading those books, I wouldn't glean an atheism from them. (admittedly, the third book is the one where he pushes his agenda the most. But in the first two it's hardly noticeable)

And why do we, as Christians just insist on shunning and hiding from things that go against our beliefs? Why do we boycott things just because they might go against our religion? In my opinion, that just shows fear on our part. Fear that we might actually have to defend ourselves against something.

And how can you come to a proper conclusion on a book or movie without reading/seeing it yourself? In my opinion, you can't. You can read reviews, watch previews etc. But those are all *other* people's opinions. For me, to form MY own opinion on something, I need to read/watch it for myself. So I do.

I really just don't see why there has to be such a big stink over a few books and a movie. If anything, all it does is give Pullman more media coverage. Pullman is an atheist, he wrote a book against CS Lewis. So what? A man has a right to do what he wants. I just don't really see a need to get all uptight and fuss about it. >.>

*ahem* That would be the end of my rant. It was not meant to offend anyone. Nor was it directed at anyone. *grins* I just started and couldn't stop

jasonjannajerryjohn · Post by **jasonjannajerryjohn** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:18 pm

Tindomiel wrote:And why do we, as Christians just insist on shunning and hiding from things that go against our beliefs? Why do we boycott things just because they might go against our religion? In my opinion, that just shows fear on our part. Fear that we might actually have to defend ourselves against something.

I couldn't agree more. We shouldn't be hiding ourselves from this. Actually, the more we boycott said movie and books, the more we look like the Magisterium from the film.

Tindomiel wrote: And how can you come to a proper conclusion on a book or movie without reading/seeing it yourself? In my opinion, you can't. You can read reviews, watch previews etc. But those are all *other* people's opinions. For me, to form MY own opinion on something, I need to read/watch it for myself. So I do.

Agreed. Infact, I have alot of people around me that say that they won't read the Golden Compass because it is blatently atheist or because they say that you shouldn't cause you already know what is in it. Me personnaly, I don't want to read it cause I tried to read it and it was very boring.

SivartM · Post by **SivartM** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:04 pm

Tindomiel wrote:The symbolism and metaphors in the books are so...rather obscure, that they would totally go over the heads of children. And his agenda is more anti-church (specifically the catholic church) rather than anti-God.

If I were a 10, 11 or 12 year old reading those books, I wouldn't glean an atheism from them. (admittedly, the third book is the one where he pushes his agenda the most. But in the first two it's hardly noticeable)

Maybe you wouldn't, but you're assuming that all other young children are like you.

And why do we, as Christians just insist on shunning and hiding from things that go against our beliefs? Why do we boycott things just because they might go against our religion? In my opinion, that just shows fear on our part. Fear that we might actually have to defend ourselves against something.

I'm not afraid of defending myself. I'm also not picketing the theatre. I would certainly discourage people from seeing the movie or reading the books, but I'm not blindly censoring anything. Saying that it's no big deal for kids to be brainwashed by atheistic literature and movies produced by outspoken atheists who hate God is like saying it's okay for kids to go see R-rated movies or pornography. No, maybe it's not as bad as that, but it's wrong, and wrong is wrong.

And how can you come to a proper conclusion on a book or movie without reading/seeing it yourself? In my opinion, you can't. You can read reviews, watch previews etc. But those are all *other* people's opinions. For me, to form MY own opinion on something, I need to read/watch it for myself. So I do.

By this logic, we must try drugs and alcohol to come to a proper conclusion instead of trusting those who know about them.

I really just don't see why there has to be such a big stink over a few books and a movie. If anything, all it does is give Pullman more media coverage. Pullman is an atheist, he wrote a book against CS Lewis. So what? A man has a right to do what he wants. I just don't really see a need to get all uptight and fuss about it. >.>

Yes, he has a right to do what he wants, but is what he wants right?

Iron and Light · Post by **Iron and Light** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:15 pm

Pullman actively speaks out AGAINST Christianity. C. S. Lewis never spoke out against atheists, and he was never abusive towards them in his writing or by anything he said. We, as Christians, don't need to WILLINGLY subject ourselves to something openly AGAINST the Lord when we have knowledge of it beforehand.

Jennifer Doyle · Post by **Jennifer Doyle** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:45 pm

I don't picket theaters or burn books either, but I also don't financially support movies and literature with a blatantly anti-God agenda. What's the point of that?

Mr.Whit · Post by **Mr.Whit** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:53 am

SivartM wrote:
Tindomiel wrote:The symbolism and metaphors in the books are so...rather obscure, that they would totally go over the heads of children. And his agenda is more anti-church (specifically the catholic church) rather than anti-God.

If I were a 10, 11 or 12 year old reading those books, I wouldn't glean an atheism from them. (admittedly, the third book is the one where he pushes his agenda the most. But in the first two it's hardly noticeable)
Maybe you wouldn't, but you're assuming that all other young children are like you.

And why do we, as Christians just insist on shunning and hiding from things that go against our beliefs? Why do we boycott things just because they might go against our religion? In my opinion, that just shows fear on our part. Fear that we might actually have to defend ourselves against something.
I'm not afraid of defending myself. I'm also not picketing the theatre. I would certainly discourage people from seeing the movie or reading the books, but I'm not blindly censoring anything. Saying that it's no big deal for kids to be brainwashed by atheistic literature and movies produced by outspoken atheists who hate God is like saying it's okay for kids to go see R-rated movies or pornography. No, maybe it's not as bad as that, but it's wrong, and wrong is wrong.

And how can you come to a proper conclusion on a book or movie without reading/seeing it yourself? In my opinion, you can't. You can read reviews, watch previews etc. But those are all *other* people's opinions. For me, to form MY own opinion on something, I need to read/watch it for myself. So I do.
By this logic, we must try drugs and alcohol to come to a proper conclusion instead of trusting those who know about them.

I really just don't see why there has to be such a big stink over a few books and a movie. If anything, all it does is give Pullman more media coverage. Pullman is an atheist, he wrote a book against CS Lewis. So what? A man has a right to do what he wants. I just don't really see a need to get all uptight and fuss about it. >.>
Yes, he has a right to do what he wants, but is what he wants right?

You are so right Sivart .
You too Jd and Iron and Light.
I started reading the books when the trailer came out thought it looked coll giant polar bears and a magic compass cool.
But as I read we didnt know anytthing about it and I eventually stopped reading it because it was getting too wierd and around that time my parents found out about the athesim part of it so from that moment frward I am openly against it.
CS Lewis story was showing his belief in a way that supported Christianity but didnt push down athesim or any othe religions.
Although I havnt finished reading the books and have never watched the movie I know they are Evil and am not going to watch them.
Aat school my whole class was going to watch but I rfused and stayed in class while they watched it in the next room.
So just ignore?
No if people talk azbout it I will state my views but I wont go out of the way to say its evil.
THeese are pretty much my views and I am sticking buy them.

Amethystic · Post by **Amethystic** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:01 am

I don't think it is ever right to shrug off something that opposes our faith. The world is becoming so Godless, we can't afford to let them take another shot at us. As Christians, we need to take a stand against our opposers and defend what is right.

And as for Narnia trashing Athiesm, I don't think it does that very much. The movies and books were made in a way that allows each individual person to withdraw their own message out of them. And even when Christians do take a stand against Athiests, it's not the same thing as them trashing us. The difference is that we are on the good side, and they are on the bad side, and when you are good you cannot allow the bad to take hits at you without taking a stand. That may sound mean, but that's what it spiritually comes down to.

Pretty_Pink · Post by **Pretty_Pink** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:17 am

I read the first book several years ago
I enjoyed the book and I have not seen the movie
When people said that the movie and the books were evil it came as a surprise to me I did not see anything bad about the first book

Niemand · Post by **Niemand** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:23 am

Liked the books. Thought the ending in the third was weak, though.

I had a professor who once compared Harry Potter to porn and crack as an explanation of why he didn't need to read the books in order to form an opinion of them. That comparison might be valid if you think that dear old Nick wrote Harry Potter or His Dark Materials via the happy mediums of Rowling and Pullman and is using them to infect young minds and turn them to satanism, witchcraft, sibling sacrifice, and 80's fashion. I have met people (maybe there are some here that do?) who believe that. On the other hand, if the authors are honestly free agents, then their books are simply literature. Now, even I have my limitations on appropriateness of certain elements of the set of literature. I just finished a book that my kids (if I ever have any) will NOT be reading until they are at least twice my current age. Most disturbing thing I have ever read in my life. Thank you Frank Yerby. Anyway, all that to say that I certainly respect a parent's desire to provide guidance to their children's reading. That said, I have yet to find ANY book that I agreed completely with, or thought it could not have been more superbly written, or in better taste, etc. We all strive for the ultimate novel, and may no one ever write it, 'cause then we'll all be most exceedingly bored.

Happy Tuesday