I’ve already had a conversation before about ‘Do the ignorant go to heck’ but I have to readdress it here because it’s something I feel very strongly about.
I truly am unable to comprehend where the idea comes from that people who, through no fault of their own, have not learned of God will be matter-of-factly sent to heck. I don’t understand how anyone can even come up with that thought; it makes no sense whatsoever.
I understand the basis for it. Sin is sin whether one knows it or not, and if one sins and does not repent one goes to heck. I have no problem with that, because of course that’s true. But what I have a serious problem with, and what my mind is unable to process, is the leap from that understanding to the position that if one does not know God they can’t repent, and therefore have unrepented sins and go to heck. That may be ‘mathematically’ correct, from a very brief glance, but it doesn’t hold up if you give it deeper thought.
For one to repent of their sins, they have to
realize their sins are sins! That’s not to say they aren’t still sinning, but if they don’t know it then they cannot be found guilty of the sin. That is, they did
sin, but they did not necessarily
commit a sin, if you follow me. If someone does something wrong, but doesn’t realize it is wrong, then the
person cannot be faulted as if they intentionally did wrong, even though the
act itself is wrong.
Consider the standard scenario for these kinds of discussions: a native deep in the jungle.
He lives his life as best he knows how. He has never heard of God or Jesus or sin or anything like that. He has no idea there is a ‘greater purpose’ for life and there are things he should do to live ‘right’ and get to Heaven. He does have a conscience, as all people do, so he realizes there is a right and wrong. It may be aligned somewhat differently than someone living in a civilized area, but there is definitely a good and bad he can sense. He goes through his life attempting to follow the good, as he understands it. He commits sins along the way, as every human does, but he’s doing his best to live a good life. Then one day he dies. Will he go to heck?
The black and white answer is ‘Yes, he certainly will.’ He committed sins and never repented of them, he has to go to heck.
But the reasonable answer is ‘We don’t know.’ He committed sins and never repented of them, but that was because he
didn’t know he was supposed to! You can’t repent of something you don’t know is wrong! If he had heard about Jesus and had realized he had sinned, there is every reason to believe he would have. He lived his life as best as he could under what he knew.
Everyone has to choose between God or sin. That choice is what decides whether they go to Heaven or heck. But for one to make that choice, they must realize there
is a choice. God is the ultimate fulfillment of mercy, He will absolutely not punish someone on a technicality. He will ensure, one way or another, that everyone has had a sufficient opportunity to make their choice. For most people, it is during their lifetime when they learn about Him and the necessity to turn from sin. But for those who don’t learn about Him He will provide another way. Some way, at some time, this native will be provided with the information he needs to make his choice. We don’t know when or how this choice is made by every person, but we do know
it is always made.
Christian A. wrote:gunblader3 wrote:So not everyone on earth has an equal chance of being saved because they didn't know what they were doing was wrong.
You are correct. Not everyone on Earth has an equal chance at being saved.
He didn’t say that, he was paraphrasing you. And no that is not correct. Not everyone has the
same chance of being saved (someone who hears about Jesus from a church as opposed to the previously mentioned native) but everyone has an
equal chance. God wants everyone to be saved, He will make sure everyone has the opportunity. The rest is up to them, whether they accept His forgiveness or not, but the chance will always be given.
Christian A. wrote:God has instilled within us a natural knowledge of right and wrong so that we cannot plead innocence because of ignorance.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. The ignorance we’re talking about is not ignorance of sin, it’s ignorance of God. Someone can not know God and repent of their sin. As you say, we don’t need God to know right from wrong (for the most part) so if the native has a feeling in his conscience that he did something wrong, he is perfectly capable of thinking ‘I’m sorry I did that, that was wrong.’ That is sorrow and repentance for his sin, but not repentance to God because he doesn’t know God. You’re saying that isn’t good enough, I’m saying of course it is. He is
unable to do any more! He has repented to the best of his ability, God cannot fault that, indeed He will even praise that.
Christian A. wrote:God does not punish people with more than what they deserve. Every sin deserves an eternity in heck. But there are also, apparently, levels within heck. Those who did not know about Jesus will not be punished as severely, because they did not commit the sin of rejecting Him, because they did not know about Him. But those who do know about Jesus and still reject Him will suffer a hotter heck.
This is the argument that most frustrates and saddens me to hear people make, because it is
wrong. ‘Levels of heck’? heck is heck! Eternal punishment is eternal punishment, whether it’s of a lesser ‘degree’ or not! heck is
the ultimate punishment. You’re treating it like a modern criminal justice system. ‘You have extenuating circumstances, you get a lesser sentence.’
NO! There is no lesser sentence in heck. All souls in heck suffer alike. So the statement that God is still merciful because out of mercy he condemns them to a ‘lesser’ heck is
self-contradictory. God
is merciful, so He will
not send someone to
any ‘degree’ of heck if they did not deserve it by
them making the choice not to accept His forgiveness. A choice that once again can only be made if they
know about it.