Re: "God is not a man..."
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:17 pm
Yeah, but she said that she doesn't believe that Jesus is the fulfilled prophecy, because she said she doesn't believe it happened yet.
I do not believe the Son of God had a human nature before He came to earth. Yes, He exists outside of time, but when He entered time, as a man, He added a human nature to His divine nature, and now He will forever be human. He stands at the right hand of the Father with a glorified human body, which He did not have prior to His incarnation.Ayn Rand wrote:As Kait said God exists outside of time, He is both God and man through out time. The moment of His incarnation is a specific time but His nature is timeless.
Ooohh. Okay, thanks for making that clear for me.Kait wrote:I don't believe the Messiah will be God incarnate. There is nothing to indicate that in the Old Testament, that idea is one adopted from Roman and Greek traditions and has no real basis in scripture. The idea of a Messiah in scripture is PURELY a kingly one. God's anointed, who will reign in a time of peace. That's it.
II John 1:7-11 wrote:For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
Well there are several Bible stories derived from other myths. Jesus being God incarnate being one of them. Zeus and other gods would often mate with humans to create a demigod, a half god, half human. Dionysus in particular was considered a full god but he was born of a mortal woman. Now I know that's not exactly the Bible story, but you can see how the story would come from the other story. If you know the way stories and mythology spread, especially in times when you would mostly spread religious stories by telling them to people.Kait wrote:I don't believe the Messiah will be God incarnate. There is nothing to indicate that in the Old Testament, that idea is one adopted from Roman and Greek traditions and has no real basis in scripture. The idea of a Messiah in scripture is PURELY a kingly one. God's anointed, who will reign in a time of peace. That's it.
I agree. Unfortunately not all religious people in the world will just stop at words. Makes me wonder what would happen if the US was actually a theocracy ruled by the Bible as some would like.Ayn Rand wrote:I think you guys are being really rude to Kait, this is a terrible witness. In the last two posts you have called Kait a deceiver, one with wicked ways, and made vague threats toward Kait that God will do something bad to her. Stop it, seriously.
Wow. So I'm not supposed to ever ask a question regarding possible Biblical contradictions? I'm supposed to just accept everything I am taught by man regarding theology? And if I don't God is going to give me the equivalent of a parent's "spanking?" I don't think I'm the one who is juvenile in this scenario. But thanks for that.Josef1004 wrote:It's easy to understand that the idea is that God is not in the category that we are, as created beings. God is higher; He is the creator. To trifle over wording and say: "Isn't Jesus a man?" is just silly and akin to a smartypants little boy who, when asked by his mother whether he has brushed his teeth, says: "Yes, ma'am!" because she didn't specify she meant today after supper and not yesterday morning. What should the mother do about that? What do you suppose God will do about people who smart-talk back at his word?
I've never been called the anti-christ before or been told I have wicked ways. I guess I can add that to my bucket list that didn't exist.Dr. Watson wrote:II John 1:7-11 wrote:For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
I think this sums it up. Anyone who denies Jesus Christ was fully human and fully divine, is deceived and is a deceiver, does not have God, and has wicked ways. Anyone in this category needs to repent of sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, resting in His substitutionary atoning work on the cross.
Thanks, Ayn. I mean it.Ayn Rand wrote:I think you guys are being really rude to Kait, this is a terrible witness. In the last two posts you have called Kait a deceiver, one with wicked ways, and made vague threats toward Kait that God will do something bad to her. Stop it, seriously.
Watson disapproves of you using his name.Dr. Watson wrote:II John 1:7-11 wrote:For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
I think this sums it up. Anyone who denies Jesus Christ was fully human and fully divine, is deceived and is a deceiver, does not have God, and has wicked ways. Anyone in this category needs to repent of sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, resting in His substitutionary atoning work on the cross.
This is not a question; it is a statement about what you believe. I firmly believe in asking questions about the Scriptures and seeking out what they mean. However, at the end of the day, if the statement above about Christ is your belief, then apostolic Biblical truth urges you to repent and believe on Jesus Christ!Kait wrote:I don't believe the Messiah will be God incarnate. There is nothing to indicate that in the Old Testament, that idea is one adopted from Roman and Greek traditions and has no real basis in scripture.
So the only reason for repentance from sin is to escape judgement?Dr. Watson wrote: Without a realization of the coming judgement against sin, there is no need for repentance from sin!
Carry on!Jelly wrote:And the trinity is an unsolvable paradox, you can't make sense of it. You either accept it by faith, or you don't.
Yes, you absolutely should ask questions. I ask questions all the time. I personally feel that you absolutely must question your faith and seek answers to those questions and find someone who can give them to you, especially since in the real world, people will attack your faith—whatever it may be—all the time, and you need to be ready. I don't know where this idea comes from that to have doubts about God means that you're an ungrateful, immature little brat, but seriously...it's time for it to die. God is not afraid of or angry at our questions. He is angry at blasphemy and heresy, but He is not angry with people who genuinely want answers.Kait wrote:So I'm not supposed to ever ask a question regarding possible Biblical contradictions? I'm supposed to just accept everything I am taught by man regarding theology?
The way Kait came across to me was not as someone who was denying that Jesus was fully God and fully divine. She came across as someone who wanted to understand how we reconcile "God is not a man" versus "fully God and fully man".Dr. Watson wrote:I think this sums it up. Anyone who denies Jesus Christ was fully human and fully divine, is deceived and is a deceiver, does not have God, and has wicked ways. Anyone in this category needs to repent of sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, resting in His substitutionary atoning work on the cross.
^^This.Kait wrote:This is basically an easy cop-out way of saying "I have no good rebuttal for anything you have presented, nor do I have any desire to actually answer your question and so I am going to call you a deceiver with wicked ways."
I say this with the utmost sincerity, Kait—I am truly sorry that you grew up in that environment. There is no excuse for that, in my opinion. People become stronger Christians because they get their earnest questions answered, not because they blindly followed what other people have told them. This is why it's so important for Christians to study the Bible.Kait wrote:It should also be noted this is one of the primary reasons I am no longer a Christian. Because every single time I tried to ask challenging questions regarding what everyone blindly believes, I was told that asking those questions was sinful. And that I just need to believe that Jesus is the Messiah and stop asking ridiculous questions that no one has an answer for.
The way I was raised, I was always told that this was not the God who made me. That is not Yahweh. God does not smite all doubters; He punishes those who directly blaspheme His name or otherwise sin against Him, but He knows we doubt and He is willing to provide answers for those who ask. I also think there is a difference between truly doubting God and seeking belief.Kait wrote:And I'm sorry, but I'm not about to follow a God who doesn't allow questions. I'm not about to worship someone named Jesus unless I am 100 percent certain that God *wants* me to worship that person as Christianity tells me I am supposed to.
On this, we will have to agree to disagree. I think that the very fact that entire passages of Old Testament scripture—breathed out by God, according to 2nd Timothy—are devoted to prophesying about Jesus (Isaiah 53 being a prime example) is proof enough.Kait wrote:And I don't see that evidence in any Old Testament scripture.
^^This.Ayn Rand wrote:I think you guys are being really rude to Kait, this is a terrible witness. In the last two posts you have called Kait a deceiver, one with wicked ways, and made vague threats toward Kait that God will do something bad to her. Stop it, seriously.
Yes, of course. If everything Watson and others like him would have us believe to be true were actually true than yes, definitely. I and many others, especially those darned intellectual atheists, would be for sure asking for forgiveness and making sure to do whatever God wants to stay out of heck. We can sit here and argue about how evil that is, torturing someone forever for all of eternity (you think Guantanamo is bad), but if it were really true, we'd all want to make sure to avoid such a fate. That doesn't mean we'd go around worshiping such a God, because such a God would be unworthy of worship, however we would do as much as we can to spread it and make sure people don't go to heck. Atheists actually tend to be some of the most altruistic people.Ayn Rand wrote:So the only reason for repentance from sin is to escape judgement?Dr. Watson wrote: Without a realization of the coming judgement against sin, there is no need for repentance from sin!
From the background I come from, we call this kind of repentance "imperfect contrition". It basically means that we are sorry we sinned but only because we are afraid of punishment and judgment. And while this is a valid reason to be sorry for our sins, it isn't the only reason, nor is it the best.Ayn Rand wrote:So the only reason for repentance from sin is to escape judgement?Dr. Watson wrote: Without a realization of the coming judgement against sin, there is no need for repentance from sin!
My Jesus, laden with sorrows, I weep for the offenses that I have committed against Thee, because of the pains which they have deserved, and still more because of the displeasure which they have caused Thee, Who hast loved me so much. It is Thy love, more than the fear of heck, which causes me to weep for my sins. My Jesus, I love Thee more than myself; I repent of having offended Thee. Never permit me to offend Thee again. Grant that I may love Thee always, and then do with me what Thou wilt.
My apologies, I was mostly combining my response to both you and Josef1004.Dr. Watson wrote:People, this isn't about squashing questions. I don't know where you get that from.
Kait, you said,
This is not a question; it is a statement about what you believe. I firmly believe in asking questions about the Scriptures and seeking out what they mean. However, at the end of the day, if the statement above about Christ is your belief, then apostolic Biblical truth urges you to repent and believe on Jesus Christ!Kait wrote:I don't believe the Messiah will be God incarnate. There is nothing to indicate that in the Old Testament, that idea is one adopted from Roman and Greek traditions and has no real basis in scripture.
Ayn, this is not a "bad witness" as you put it--it is being a witness to the deity and humanity of Jesus Christ, His perfect life, His death, atonement and resurrection. This is the gospel, and I am appalled that no one here is addressing the heretical teaching that Jesus is not God incarnate. Shame! Jesus is everything to me, He is my Lord and my God. He has saved me from heck and the wrath of God. How can I not speak to defend the honor of Christ and the orthodox teachings of the prophets, apostles, and the church? In fact, I was pretty mild in comparison with the likes of Apostle Peter and Jude when they lambast false teachers! Are they a "bad witness" as well?