You think the church only split after the 1900s? Which church are you thinking of? Rock music has been considered wicked by some since it's beginning no doubt but I'm saying I don't think the church in general considers it so, I mean have you noticed almost no one else on this board agrees with you? And we have a pretty diverse group of denominations.
For example, the Nazarenes, Wesleyans. They used to be exactly like us. I don't remember the exact time, but I think the early part of the 1900's.
I am really curious as to your answer. So those rules are laid out without consideration as to how God will lead the individual, but assuming that He will call them to not listen to rock music and the other standards that you say are needed to be "entirely sanctified"? Also are you equating listening to rock music with being a homosexual?
I didn't say these standards are needed to be ES'ed. Just to have a big position in the church.
No, I'm not equating those two sins. I'm simply saying that we don't allow people be pastors, ect. of our churches, if they don't follow the rules. That would be like you letting a homosexual be the pastor of your church. Oh, and I don't think we have a rule against rock music.
Sherlock agrees with me that Tradition is important and can be as authoritative as Scripture. She does not agree with the rock music issue. If you're following the rules simply because the people who made them had good reasons and not because the rules are Scriptural you are going with tradition. How is it different?
"Jesus Doesn't Want Me for a Sunbeam" by Nirvana, (look up the words if you want) "God is dead, and no one cares, if their's a heck, I'll see you there." "There's a tear in my beer."
I rest my case. I understand that not all rock/ect. music is like that, but who can tell what I'm listening to? It all sounds the same, Christian or secular. I don't want to be associated with that. Besides I don't even want to listen to rock music, so what's the point?
There's a huge difference between doesn't regularly listen to and thinks it's wicked and will keep you out of heaven.
Once again, it won't keep you out of Heaven unless God tells you not to, and you rebel against that order.
Termite wrote: Yes, that was a joke. No one's hyper and mad, buddy.
OK, well it seemed like it was getting pretty heated up. Just trying to keep things calm.
Sinning is a lot different then not going to Heaven. Read your post I first quoted again. =P
You can't sin and go to heaven.
TTC wrote:...I know the rock issue has been spoken of to death but I'd really like actual scripture or proof of some kind on that issue. >_>
Instead of "Rock music, is WAY different. Bad artists, bad songs, worldly music, bad history, the way it affects you, thw way the church has always stood against it..." as a statement with nothing at all to support it.
I just gave you about every reason in the world that we don't listen to it. Refer to the song lyrics above, and you'll see yet another reason.
-- 30 May 2011 07:41 am --
Jesus' Princess wrote:On the subject of rock music, I don't listen to it, and it's not something that I want to be associated with. Most of the lyrics and attitudes portrayed are ungodly, and wrong, But, I can't say that listening to rock music will keep you out of heaven, UNLESS, God tells you specifically to stop listening to it and you don't listen to him, then you have directly disobeyed the Lord and sinned.
Thank you. That is very good, and what I
think I've been saying the whole time!
"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". I'm confused because both you and odysseyfan1 have made statements like this. Must we ask specific forgiveness for every sin and if we miss one we won't go to heaven?
I don't believe in Calvinism. You can't sin and go to Heaven. Sure people will make mistakes once in a while, but they need to ask forgiveness and move on.
Jeremy wrote:OF1 believes it will. He says that sinning will keep you out of heaven. That's the real issue that should be discussed here, is the false gospel of salvation by faith plus works that PHC teaches.
Jeremy
We don't teach salvation by works. We simply obey the commands stated in the Bible. And yes, sinning will keep you out of Heaven.
![Yes :yes:](./images/smilies/yes.gif)
Christian A. wrote:I think you are slightly misrepresenting of1 and the PHC movement. But I can see what you mean. If your sin gets you "unsaved," then it must be your good works keeping you saved, not Christ's. But I also see his point that if you listen to rock music, it's okay--you can go to heaven. (I listen to Christian rock artists, and I have assurance of heaven when I die.) But if God specifically came and told you, like of1 seems to be saying, not to listen to rock music, and you refused Him to His face, then it would show that you aren't a true believer. I think that's all of1's trying to say.
Exactly.
I admit I'm a little confused by his denomination because of that belief. I belong to a holiness denomination as well (though it is VERY different than his) and the main point with it is that while works don't save us, we shouldn't abandon works all together. After you have been saved though God's grace, we should strive to live a holy lifestyle in order to grow closer to God, and show we love him through our obedience to Him. But if we don't always succeed in doing His will, it doesn't mean we go to heck--but we may have missed out on something great that God had for us. Like Moses missed out on the promised land because of his disobedience.
True, but what my point is, is that you can't go to the bar, participate in immoral behavior, tell lies, steal cars and semi trucks, and do this your whole life, and never repent (even if you have been saved at one point) and still go to Heaven. You'd be going directly against the word of God.
What denomination do you belong to?
-- 30 May 2011 07:42 am --
iluvsns wrote:Thanks for that, odysseyfan1. I really appreciate what you had to say.
Which part?