Lack of respect for our leaders!

Anna><> · Post by **Anna><>** » Thu May 14, 2009 4:28 pm

Well that may be what a leader is, but although you may not believe he's your leader, he is an authority over you. (As long as you're American. Fortunately for me I'm not American so he's not my leader or authority.) This is is what the Bible says about how you should treat authorities. "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities," wrote the apostle Paul. "For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God" (Romans 13:1). "Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor."
See you must honor him- even if you don't like him or what he does. He's an authority.
You really should pray for him a lot too. If he's not saved he'll go to heck, so you could pray he does become a Christian.

Also, look at Daniel's life. Daniel had to live under the authority of Nebuchadnezzar. He didn't obey him, but he made sure that he showed respect to him. Daniel discerned what he was told, but he didn't go against God's commandments. Although he didn't disrespect him, he didn't bow before the idol when the authority over him said to. You still need to honor and respect authority's in your life even if they're ungodly.

31899 · Post by **31899** » Thu May 14, 2009 4:31 pm

I think there is just a general lack of respect. The other day I saw a person walking during the national anthem... and then I flipped after, but that is besides the point.

31899

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Thu May 14, 2009 5:16 pm

31899 wrote:I think there is just a general lack of respect. The other day I saw a person walking during the national anthem... and then I flipped after, but that is besides the point.

31899

You're describing the general apathy/lack of respect for the nation that a majority of the populace appears to be infected with, and not disrespect for a leader.

Chandler · Post by **Chandler** » Fri May 15, 2009 1:23 pm

PJ wrote:Whether he is or not, I do not consider him my leader. I do not agree with him, therefore he does not direct or guide me. As to respect, I cannot esteem or honor him. I believe it would be blasphemy if I was to do so. I will not degrade him in any way as that would not be honoring to God, nor would it reflect my Lord. I, myself, am tired of the name-calling and belittling as well. I will also state the truth and point others to the truth as I am able.

May God get the glory through it all.

Hi, PJ. Interesting thoughts, but can you support this Biblically?

Shad Lexer · Post by **Shad Lexer** » Sat May 16, 2009 11:35 am

PJ wrote:
Ziff wrote:
PJ wrote:I'm not sure if he's eligible to be the president or not (the natural/native born discussion). Whether he is or not, I do not consider him my leader. I do not agree with him, therefore he does not direct or guide me. As to respect, I cannot esteem or honor him. I believe it would be blasphemy if I was to do so. I will not degrade him in any way as that would not be honoring to God, nor would it reflect my Lord. I, myself, am tired of the name-calling and belittling as well. I will also state the truth and point others to the truth as I am able.

May God get the glory through it all.
Whether you consider him your leader or not, doesn't change the truth. He IS your leader. I don't agree with him at all, and I must admit I poke fun at him on occasion, but either way you can't deny the fact that he is your God ordained leader, be it for good or evil.
He is not my leader. He "may" be the president, but he's not my leader. That is the truth and it will never change.

You choosing not to follow him doesn't change his role in our society. He is our leader whether we follow him or not. You don't have to agree with someone in order for them to lead you. God decides who your leader is, and you don't. President Obama, for whatever reason, is our God given President. God allowed him to be elected as our leader, and we are given the responsibility to follow him. (As long as following him doesn't cause us to sin, because God is a higher power.)

xiao · Post by **xiao** » Sat May 16, 2009 11:37 am

Ziff wrote:
PJ wrote:
Ziff wrote:
PJ wrote:I'm not sure if he's eligible to be the president or not (the natural/native born discussion). Whether he is or not, I do not consider him my leader. I do not agree with him, therefore he does not direct or guide me. As to respect, I cannot esteem or honor him. I believe it would be blasphemy if I was to do so. I will not degrade him in any way as that would not be honoring to God, nor would it reflect my Lord. I, myself, am tired of the name-calling and belittling as well. I will also state the truth and point others to the truth as I am able.

May God get the glory through it all.
Whether you consider him your leader or not, doesn't change the truth. He IS your leader. I don't agree with him at all, and I must admit I poke fun at him on occasion, but either way you can't deny the fact that he is your God ordained leader, be it for good or evil.
He is not my leader. He "may" be the president, but he's not my leader. That is the truth and it will never change.

You choosing not to follow him doesn't change his role in our society. He is our leader whether we follow him or not. You don't have to agree with someone in order for them to lead you. God decides who your leader is, and you don't. President Obama, for whatever reason, is our God given President. God allowed him to be elected as our leader, and we are given the responsibility to follow him. (As long as following him doesn't cause us to sin, because God is a higher power.)

I guess I would agree with this although I do believe the people of the United States choose our leader and not just solely God

Amethystic · Post by **Amethystic** » Sat May 16, 2009 4:18 pm

^^^God is in control of everything, though, including the American voters.

Romans 13: 1-7 wrote: 1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

So PJ, if you're an American there's not much you can do about Obama being your leader, because his authority has been established by God.

Post by **StrongNChrist** » Sat May 16, 2009 8:07 pm

Yes, God is in control but He also allows people to do as they want. He doesn't control them, so He doesn't make them vote for a certian person.

But I agree with what xiao said

Shad Lexer · Post by **Shad Lexer** » Sat May 16, 2009 8:57 pm

StrongNChrist wrote:Yes, God is in control but He also allows people to do as they want. He doesn't control them, so He doesn't make them vote for a certian person.

But I agree with what xiao said

That's kind of contradictory.. How is God in control if He has no control over the vote? Obama wouldn't be President if God hadn't wanted/allowed Him to be for whatever reason.

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Sat May 16, 2009 10:05 pm

StrongNChrist wrote:Yes, God is in control but He also allows people to do as they want. He doesn't control them, so He doesn't make them vote for a certian person.

Really?

The Bible does say that God establishes authority. No one comes to power, anywhere, unless God allows it.

Now I'm not saying it is the divine casting every vote. But I do believe that God allows the public at large to sway one way or the other.

PJ · Post by PJ » Sat May 16, 2009 10:37 pm

I am not going to change my mind.

I doubt you're going to change yours.

Therefore, there is no need for me to continue this discussion.

Bye.

Chandler · Post by **Chandler** » Sun May 17, 2009 12:13 am

Jonathan wrote:
StrongNChrist wrote:Yes, God is in control but He also allows people to do as they want. He doesn't control them, so He doesn't make them vote for a certian person.
Really?

The Bible does say that God establishes authority. No one comes to power, anywhere, unless God allows it.

Now I'm not saying it is the divine casting every vote. But I do believe that God allows the public at large to sway one way or the other.

I think you're kind of both agreeing, actually.

As I said in another thread, there's the idea of God's perfect will vs. His submissive will. God may allow us to vote in particular president because that's what we want, and He is willing to allow it. Just like the in the Bible God allowed the Israelites to go into exile and be ruled by kings who didn't serve Him. It wasn't His perfect will that His nation should be treated that way, but He allowed it because the Israelites had gone astray and needed to come back to him. Same thing with them demanding a king in the first place, actually. God warned them not to but since they insisted, He appointed Saul.

Dr. Watson · Post by **Dr. Watson** » Sun May 17, 2009 3:36 pm

StrongNChrist wrote:Yes, God is in control but He also allows people to do as they want. He doesn't control them, so He doesn't make them vote for a certian person.

As Proverbs 21:1 tells us:

God wrote: The king‘s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes.

If the Lord can control the heart of a king, He can certainly control the heart of a voter.

Post by **StrongNChrist** » Sun May 17, 2009 4:10 pm

There are times that God allows people to rise into power because of the people's actions. God allows it, but that doesn't mean they're the best leader.
right, Thank you Shawndlay. I'm afraid I have a hard time putting into words what I'm trying to say.
He can control the heart of the voter but that doesn't mean He will. He wants us to have free will, He has given us free will, so He also allows us to face the consequences of our choices.

KODY 105 · Post by **KODY 105** » Sun May 17, 2009 7:35 pm

Dr. Watson wrote:
StrongNChrist wrote:Yes, God is in control but He also allows people to do as they want. He doesn't control them, so He doesn't make them vote for a certian person.
As Proverbs 21:1 tells us:

God wrote: The king‘s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes.
If the Lord can control the heart of a king, He can certainly control the heart of a voter.

No He can't! He can control monarchs, but not the FREE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! Humor alert. I concur with the doctor completely.

Jonathan · Post by **Jonathan** » Sun May 17, 2009 7:49 pm

StrongNChrist wrote:He can control the heart of the voter but that doesn't mean He will. He wants us to have free will, He has given us free will, so He also allows us to face the consequences of our choices.

Does that mean you believe he never does?

Amethystic · Post by **Amethystic** » Sun May 17, 2009 8:31 pm

KODY 10K wrote:
Dr. Watson wrote:
StrongNChrist wrote:Yes, God is in control but He also allows people to do as they want. He doesn't control them, so He doesn't make them vote for a certian person.
As Proverbs 21:1 tells us:

God wrote: The king‘s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes.
If the Lord can control the heart of a king, He can certainly control the heart of a voter.
No He can't! He can control monarchs, but not the FREE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! Humor alert. I concur with the doctor completely.

Ha-ha, you're hilarious.

I think the best way to sum this up is to say that nothing happens that God didn't mean to happen; it's all part of his plan.

KODY 105 · Post by **KODY 105** » Sun May 17, 2009 8:44 pm

I was trying to emulate our dearly departed Pseudonym.

Was that vaguely Pseudonymish?

Amethystic · Post by **Amethystic** » Sun May 17, 2009 9:50 pm

KODY 10K wrote:I was trying to emulate our dearly departed Pseudonym. Was that vaguely Pseudonymish?

Wait, departed?

Wait, dearly departed?!

KODY 105 · Post by **KODY 105** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:24 am

Amethystic wrote:
KODY 10K wrote:I was trying to emulate our dearly departed Pseudonym. Was that vaguely Pseudonymish?
Wait, departed?

Wait, dearly departed?!

Pseudonym left. Departed = left (past tense of to leave).

He is a dear friend to me at least, so he is now dearly departed.