Denomination

What are you?

At the Second Church of Odyssey you'll find different ways of expressing your beliefs, finding prayer support or being encouraged through regular devotionals.

Which are you

Catholic
6
7%
Protestant
3
4%
Baptist
23
27%
Nondenominational
28
33%
Covenant
0
No votes
Presbyterian
2
2%
Methodist
3
4%
Other
20
24%
 
Total votes: 85

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Dr. Watson
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Post by Dr. Watson »

Zedekiah wrote:
Dr. Watson wrote:Moderating this, however; I think divergent opinions and interpretations of the Bible are good (barring blatant heresy of course). The Holy Spirit leads Christians in many different ways, and to think that all Christians should be made with cookie-cutters is also faulty. Thus we have the different modern denominations.
I cannot agree with this. Divergent opinions and interpretations of biblical matters are not a good thing. Better, I would think, that we all recognized the proper views on each point of doctrine. We clearly do not, and no, I certainly don't think we should be judgmental about non-essentials, but I still do not believe that it is better that some are wrong.
To clarify my position, I was not referring to essential points of doctrine--such as the deity of Christ, the Trinity, the virgin birth, etc. etc. Rather, I meant points of practical living and standards that people vary on. Such as: Our family has very good friends who have a Mennonite/Anabaptist background. For example, the women and girls wear head coverings, and the family does not celebrate holidays. However, my mother and sisters don't wear head coverings, and we celebrate Christmas and Easter. In other words, our families are quite different on some points of interpretation, but we still had very good fellowship. Church fellowship betwixt Christians does not necessitate agreement on every little point of doctrine and/or standards. I believe the elders of a church should establish at least a basic core of beliefs that each member can agree to. The idea of "statements of faith" that many denominations put forth is going too far in micromanaging the membership of their churches.
Zedekiah wrote: I do not say this to claim that I am always right on doctrinal issues; again, if you asked me about any individual matter, I would defend my belief as correct, but if you asked me in aggregate whether I believed myself right on all points of faith and practice, I would have to say, most emphatically, absolutely not. We see in a glass, darkly, and I suspect we're all wrong on some interpretation. Still, logic dictates that if two divergent views are held, they cannot both be right. No matter what your view on, say, eternal security, it clearly cannot be true that we are both eternally secure and able to lose our salvation. The two are mutually exclusive.
Quite true. But in matters of conscience, no; somethings are not mutually exclusive. E.g. the holiday example above.

Zedekiah wrote: In non-essentials, liberty. We can debate endlessly about any number of doctrinal points not vital to salvation. There is nothing wrong with these debates, nor denominations formed out of these disagreements; rather, I find that healthy. The importance of correct doctrine is stressed repeatedly in scripture. Nonetheless, we must see those with whom we disagree on these non-essentials as brothers and sisters in Christ with whom we should indeed fellowship to some extent. We may not be willing to attend their type of church, but we recognize that they are part of the household of faith and, hopefully, we can respect them and work with them when such action would not compromise our own beliefs.
I think we agree here; see above.
Zedekiah wrote:I strongly dislike the ecumenical movement.
Me too. But putting aside denominations is a far cry from ecumenicalism.



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Clodius Albinus
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Post by Clodius Albinus »

Dr. Watson wrote:To clarify my position, I was not referring to essential points of doctrine--such as the deity of Christ, the Trinity, the virgin birth, etc. etc.
Neither was I. I would humbly submit that there are certain essentials to which one must subscribe to be considered of the household of faith, and without them, we should not even consider an individual or group to be Christian.
Dr. Watson wrote:Rather, I meant points of practical living and standards that people vary on. Such as: Our family has very good friends who have a Mennonite/Anabaptist background. For example, the women and girls wear head coverings, and the family does not celebrate holidays. However, my mother and sisters don't wear head coverings, and we celebrate Christmas and Easter. In other words, our families are quite different on some points of interpretation, but we still had very good fellowship.
As individuals, sure. Friendships can extend far beyond denominations, and indeed should. Christian fellowship does as well. That does not mean that one should attend the same church, necessarily. The Bible emphasizes the importance of doctrine; who are we to cast it aside as worthless?
Dr. Watson wrote:Church fellowship betwixt Christians does not necessitate agreement on every little point of doctrine and/or standards. I believe the elders of a church should establish at least a basic core of beliefs that each member can agree to. The idea of "statements of faith" that many denominations put forth is going too far in micromanaging the membership of their churches.
You'll have to forgive the somewhat incredulous question, but would you have a pastor not preach what he believes to be scripturally true, lest he be seen as divisive, or a church to allow false doctrine to be taught in their midst? Can you have one Sunday School class teaching predestination, another free will? The kids learning that tongues are a present-day requirement in some youth program while adults at the Wednesday night Bible study are told that it was a purely apostolic gift? Is it acceptable to have guest speakers whose views are widely divergent from the pastor's? Does doctrine matter not at all?

The idea of a statement of faith being micromanagement is abhorrent to me. What good is a church without right teaching? The Bible is for, among other things, teaching and doctrine, and the church exists, among other reasons, to equip us and to instruct us. You would suggest that we eliminate a central purpose of the church in favor of some faux unity? The Bible -- especially the New Testament -- spends a great deal of time instructing in doctrine. Should the church ignore all of that? Should we just allow everyone to draw their own conclusions and keep such an important aspect of faith entirely out of our churches?

I'm sorry, but I want my church to preach the Word -- all of it -- and to take a stand for what they -- and I -- believe to be right.
Dr. Watson wrote:Quite true. But in matters of conscience, no; somethings are not mutually exclusive. E.g. the holiday example above.
True enough; it is quite likely that an individual with such beliefs as those you cite could attend a church that did not hold to such views if they considered their position one of personal conviction. However, if they considered it biblically mandated, then they would not be right to attend a church that did not, or vice versa.
Dr. Watson wrote:Me too. But putting aside denominations is a far cry from ecumenicalism.
That is, in fact, practically the definition of it. You would have us forget our differences so that we might become one. It is true that many subsidiary points of doctrine split us along denominational lines, but I have yet to see why this is a de facto bad thing. Better, yes, that we were all united in truth, but far worse if we were all united in ignorance and denial.
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Post by Jeremy »

Zedekiah wrote:The idea of a statement of faith being micromanagement is abhorrent to me. What good is a church without right teaching? The Bible is for, among other things, teaching and doctrine, and the church exists, among other reasons, to equip us and to instruct us.
Isn't that the point? The Bible is supposed to instruct us in doctrine, not some creed or statement of beliefs, correct? I don't think Dr. Watson is implying that Pastors should not preach the Word of God. But like I said, the Word of God is where we should be taught doctrine from, not a denomination's creed, etc.

You seem to be looking at all of this from a very extreme point of view. No one ever suggested that doctrine is "worthless" or should be "thrown out" as you are saying.
Zedekiah wrote:
Dr. Watson wrote:Me too. But putting aside denominations is a far cry from ecumenicalism.
That is, in fact, practically the definition of it. You would have us forget our differences so that we might become one. It is true that many subsidiary points of doctrine split us along denominational lines, but I have yet to see why this is a de facto bad thing. Better, yes, that we were all united in truth, but far worse if we were all united in ignorance and denial.
I still don't get where you're coming from. If we agree on the essentials of the faith, what is wrong with having unity, as the Word of God commands us? Unity is one of the major doctrines of the New Testament! We are not talking about uniting with false teachers, cults, or false religions. We are talking about Christians being united! There is nothing wrong with that at all--in fact, it is supposed to happen! We are all united by the Spirit as the body of Christ in reality, so why not act like it?? (We are talking about a very real spiritual reality here--the Church.)

Jeremy
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MDB17
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Post by MDB17 »

I am Baptist
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beka8910
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Post by beka8910 »

My church is nondenominational. I go to a Christian and Missionary Alliance
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Clodius Albinus
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Post by Clodius Albinus »

beka8910 wrote:My church is nondenominational. I go to a Christian and Missionary Alliance
CMA churches are no less denominational than any other denomination. They have a hierarchical structure which includes a president and board of directors as well as financial officers and the like. The national organization oversees 1,785 churches with a combined membership of 244,296, with overseas churches numbering 11,425 with a membership of ~2.4 million, well outnumbering the U.S. numbers, in accordance with the denomination's missions/outreach-minded goals. (Data as of 1990; source: Handbook of Denominations in the United States, 9th edition, by Frank S. Mead, rev. by Samuel S. Hill.)

The Christian and Missionary Alliance denomination has its own statement of faith and doctrinal statement. While its churches are slightly more autonomous than those of some denominations which rule more rigidly over local churches, they nonetheless exercise authority over churches within their organization.

How, then, can your CMA church be nondenominational? This makes no more sense than claiming that one's Lutheran church had no denominational affiliation.
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dancer02248
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Post by dancer02248 »

well... i go to the same church as Beka...and i can tell you it is a protestant church...i believe, but it'sconsidered a non-denominational church

also when filling out surveys etc. i often pick other for denomination...in case anyone was wondering :anxious:
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Hakeber BC Rathbne Doyle

Post by Hakeber BC Rathbne Doyle »

J-man wrote:Mennonite
*noone else has any clue what that is*
I've heard of it. Is that a cult?
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Clodius Albinus
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Post by Clodius Albinus »

hakeber wrote:
J-man wrote:Mennonite
*noone else has any clue what that is*
I've heard of it. Is that a cult?
Even if it was, do you think he'd say yes, considering the fact that it is his church? Since the modern definition of the word "cult" indicates that the religion is wrong, and widely seen as such, would anyone term their own belief system thusly?

Mennonites follow, roughly, the teachings of Menno Simmons, the Anabaptist leader. There are several branches of Mennonite thought, mostly split along questions of involvement in worldly things, with the most strict of Mennonites being closer, in their way of life, to another Anabaptist offshoot, the Amish, while the least strict are in many ways similar to one's average conservative non-denominational church. Since the user in question uses the internet, it seems highly unlikely that he is a member of one of the Mennonite groups on the extremes.

It is quite possible that you and he would differ on some points of doctrine, but disagreeing with you on a few things does not a cult make.
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AioMan
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Post by AioMan »

hakeber wrote:
J-man wrote:Mennonite
*noone else has any clue what that is*
I've heard of it. Is that a cult?
I think it might be. I'm Church of God.
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Post by Hakeber BC Rathbne Doyle »

Zedekiah wrote:
hakeber wrote:
J-man wrote:Mennonite
*noone else has any clue what that is*
I've heard of it. Is that a cult?
Even if it was, do you think he'd say yes, considering the fact that it is his church? Since the modern definition of the word "cult" indicates that the religion is wrong, and widely seen as such, would anyone term their own belief system thusly?

Mennonites follow, roughly, the teachings of Menno Simmons, the Anabaptist leader. There are several branches of Mennonite thought, mostly split along questions of involvement in worldly things, with the most strict of Mennonites being closer, in their way of life, to another Anabaptist offshoot, the Amish, while the least strict are in many ways similar to one's average conservative non-denominational church. Since the user in question uses the internet, it seems highly unlikely that he is a member of one of the Mennonite groups on the extremes.

It is quite possible that you and he would differ on some points of doctrine, but disagreeing with you on a few things does not a cult make.
Now to think of it it's the one like the Quackers right? That is certainly not a cult.
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Dr. Watson
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Post by Dr. Watson »

Zedekiah wrote:
hakeber wrote:
J-man wrote:Mennonite
*noone else has any clue what that is*
I've heard of it. Is that a cult?
Even if it was, do you think he'd say yes, considering the fact that it is his church? Since the modern definition of the word "cult" indicates that the religion is wrong, and widely seen as such, would anyone term their own belief system thusly?

Mennonites follow, roughly, the teachings of Menno Simmons, the Anabaptist leader. There are several branches of Mennonite thought, mostly split along questions of involvement in worldly things, with the most strict of Mennonites being closer, in their way of life, to another Anabaptist offshoot, the Amish, while the least strict are in many ways similar to one's average conservative non-denominational church. Since the user in question uses the internet, it seems highly unlikely that he is a member of one of the Mennonite groups on the extremes.

It is quite possible that you and he would differ on some points of doctrine, but disagreeing with you on a few things does not a cult make.
I don't believe that Ms. Hakeber was accusing J-man of being in a cult; she merely wanted some clarification on who the Mennonites were.
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gimp80995
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Post by gimp80995 »

I agree with those of you who feel that Christians shouldn't be divided up into denominations.........that's why I frequently go to different denominations..........We are all Christian, so I don't really see the big deal of having to break things up.........you get into little "wars" between believers when you split up........

For instance a while back (a long while back) the church I was going to decided it was time for the associate pastor to branch off and start his own church plant........man we debated that (well, I didn't cuz I wasn't that interested one way or the other.....but the church debated it) for months..........one of the biggest problems, it split our church because when the associate pastor left, about half of our church left..........that also split our youth group up too (though we all continued to meet as one youth group for a long time).............even the high school kids didn't like being split up, because even though we were all still friends, it didn't feel like "family" when we officially became two different churches.

Anyway, currently (I think I said this somewhere once before) I will have a regular church "home" where I regularly attend services........but it's also not uncommon for me to visit with other churches either.

Peace Out

-Gimp
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Andrea Meltsner
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Post by Andrea Meltsner »

I am a soon to be *ahem ahem* Orthodox Christian. :anxious:
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Missionary
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Post by Missionary »

I am a Baptist. More specifically, I would classify myself as an Independant, Fundamental Baptist.
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gimp80995
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Post by gimp80995 »

Recently I've been going to a Free Will Baptist church. I like it there prett well. One of the best churches I've been to.

Peace Out

-Gimp
God does not call the qualified, He qualifies the called.

God, Grant us the peace that comes from honest dealings so that no fear of discovery will haunt our sleep May we inflict no pain, bring no shame, and seek no profit by another's loss.
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Mandy Straussberg
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Post by Mandy Straussberg »

I go to a non-denominational church called the Vineyard.

http://www.vcfanaheim.com

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gimp80995
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Post by gimp80995 »

Mandy Straussberg wrote:I go to a non-denominational church called the Vineyard.

http://www.vcfanaheim.com

Mandy


I know a girl who use to go to that church about a couple years ago.

Peace Out

-Gimp
God does not call the qualified, He qualifies the called.

God, Grant us the peace that comes from honest dealings so that no fear of discovery will haunt our sleep May we inflict no pain, bring no shame, and seek no profit by another's loss.
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Mary Anne Ryan
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Post by Mary Anne Ryan »

Andrea Meltsner wrote:I am a soon to be *ahem ahem* Orthodox Christian. :anxious:
Andie dear, don't be anxious about sharing your faith. If any of you wish to know I am Catholic, and my Uncle is a bishop...that is all for now folks :-$
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Andrea Meltsner
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Post by Andrea Meltsner »

Mary Anne Ryan wrote:
Andrea Meltsner wrote:I am a soon to be *ahem ahem* Orthodox Christian. :anxious:
Andie dear, don't be anxious about sharing your faith. If any of you wish to know I am Catholic, and my Uncle is a bishop...that is all for now folks :-$
you are not. because you are not even a real person! :anxious:

I am mary anne ryan
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