Tom will Fall, as Darien will rise

Whit's wiping down the counter, Connie's mopping the floor, and the kids are sipping on their milkshakes. If you want to talk about Adventures in Odyssey the radio drama, this is the spot to do just that!
User avatar
Gandalf
Tallying up
Posts: 121
Joined: April 2005

Post by Gandalf »

Trent DeWhite wrote:3. Tom finds Marus and is never heard from again.

I think this idea is brilliant, to be perfectly honest. Like Gandalf suggested, it would be very similar to what C.S. Lewis did in The Last Battle. On the other hand, with such a storyline comes a plethora of questions. How did Tom enter Marus? What happened to his body? How did he "die"? Is Marus equivalent to heaven? I find the plausibility of this particular scenario much more difficult to swallow, although I'd definitely be open to it if the writers offered a reasonable explanation for Tom's disappearance.
Just to clarify, the original idea was Bennet's. I suggested that if Tom were to end up in Marus, then AIO needs to make it clear that he is really dead in the 'real' world. Lewis makes it very clear in "The Last Battle" that his characters have all died in a train wreck: their bodies are all there, in England, mangled, broken, and beginning the decaying process. The Pevensies parents are going through the grieving process after burring three of their four children. Lewis doesn't try to cheat death or make life all happy-go-lucky.

If AIO wants to have Tom's death occur this way, it could be a powerful way of teaching about the mystery of Heaven. Having him simply 'disappear' would be wrong and is, indeed, the complete opposite of this method as it obliterates the entire point that should be made here: that death is real and painful but that Eternal Life is better than earthly life in ways we can't imagine.

AIO hasn't done an episode on death since 1995 (unless you count "Plan B"). That's almost 15 years of not discussing that topic, I think we could handle another episode or two on death.

From a production angle, I don't see how they can do Marus since Walker is gone. His voice would be needed for such an intense story line (I don't see how it could simply be lifted).

Having him move away is both unrealistic and would cheapen the entire events surrounding Whit's departure when Hal died. It's unrealistic because there simply aren't very many 85+ year old men who have wives in mental facilities who just decide to up and move. Whit going to the Middle East was believable, but copying that would be excessive.

I think there are only 3 realistic options open to the writers:
1) Have Tom die.
2) Simply ignore him from now on (unsatisfying to be sure)
3) Have a new actor.

But that's just my 2 cents. They could come up with a different option; the writers are clever and I have every confidence that they'll do something creative and meaningful.
Good to see both of you posting again, Bennett and Gandalf. It's been a long time. Smile Minor point but the country in Passages is called Marus.
Thanks for the welcome back! I do apologize for my misspellings of Marus. I am smiling at the minor point... ;)
User avatar
Bennett
Someone's favorite
Posts: 1637
Joined: April 2005

Post by Bennett »

Shawndlay wrote:
Trent DeWhite wrote:3. Tom finds Marus and is never heard from again.

I think this idea is brilliant, to be perfectly honest. Like Gandalf suggested, it would be very similar to what C.S. Lewis did in The Last Battle. On the other hand, with such a storyline comes a plethora of questions. How did Tom enter Marus? What happened to his body? How did he "die"? Is Marus equivalent to heaven? I find the plausibility of this particular scenario much more difficult to swallow, although I'd definitely be open to it if the writers offered a reasonable explanation for Tom's disappearance.
I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet but this sounds like what happened in the Passages books with the man named James who was living at Hillingdale Haven.
Brilliant. Yeah, something even a bit like that would be rather interesting.

King Butter Turtle wrote: Second, if they were to send Tom to Marus, it would have nothing to do with Darien's Rise. It wouldn't be able to tell the same story as the book and therefore, in the episode which odysseyfan.com states as "Darien's Rise", I doubt Tom would go to Marus. If they're not going to follow the Darien's Rise storyline, why would they call it that?
I thought about that. There's no real connection, or parallels that Tom as a character could even fit into. But that's not the point. Tom wouldn't be the main character of the episode, nor do I even expect him to be in it at all. But, if they change the prologue, to have Whit and Jack's *reason* for the search of Marus to be BECAUSE of Tom, would be make the whole deal even more mysterious and wonderful.

On a really far fetched side note, if Tom WOULD be included or incorporated in the story would be: the only similarity I could remember between the story of Darien's Rise, and ANYTHING relating to Tom...is that, like the two kids in Darien's Rise, Tom as a child and his sister were wandering through the woods to bring some lady medicine but got stuck in some old person's cabin, and they started a fire to get out. (in some, forgotten, episode title which I forget but am too lazy to figure out.)

But that's totally irrelevant...

(unless Odyssey began experimenting with Time Travel-warp-holes...whatever)

Ha. Jokes.
King Butter Turtle wrote:
Bennett wrote:Marus would metaphorically represent Heaven
Minus the war and conflict. ;) Granted I've never read The Last Battle so I might be slightly misunderstanding, but I find the idea of anyone dying and going anywhere but heaven or hell absolutly unchristian.
That's why it would be a metaphor. And that's why, Tom's DEATH in our world would not bring him there. I just meant it would, in some ways, symbolize a death. Odyssey would never want to teach children anything other than the truth.
King Butter Turtle wrote:Finally, just for the sake of throwing out another idea, although I highly doubt it would happen, what about Alice. The woman who experienced Marus with Timmy as a girl and was the first to tell Tom about it, because she was dying of Cancer. Maybe, anyone who's ever been to Marus and came back, doesn't really die, but goes to Marus (again, I even find my own idea questionably biblical), so when Tom goes there he finds Alice and Timmy (who are married of course :inlove: ) and the three of them go on an adventure, Tom (who we found has gotten some terminal illness) discovers he is healed in Marus, so he goes back to get Agnes, when both of them die and meet Alice and Timmy in a heavan scene. The end!

Haha, way too far fetched, I know, but the idea of Alice or her family somehow coming back into play, would be very entertaining.
Haha. Yeah, I had forgotten about Alice. I wonder if she would come into play.
User avatar
Mrs Jason Whittaker
Classic
Posts: 648
Joined: March 2008
Location: Mitchell, SD

Post by Mrs Jason Whittaker »

King Butter Turtle wrote:
Bennett wrote:Marus would metaphorically represent Heaven
Minus the war and conflict. ;) Granted I've never read The Last Battle so I might be slightly misunderstanding, but I find the idea of anyone dying and going anywhere but heaven or hell absolutly unchristian.
Just to clarify how The Last Battle portrays heaven: Seven people that had experienced adventures in Narnia find themselves back in Narnia trying to save it from an evil imposter. In the course of doing this, the entire world is destroyed and Aslan leads them to the New Narnia which becomes a metaphorical representation of heaven. They find all the glory and wonder of Narnia without the war and conflict.

So...a trip to Marus could be a way for Tom to enter Heaven, but I wouldn't like it because the idea has already been used. Perhaps it is "too obvious" but I still think the best solution would be to have Tom die.
"Your days, at the most, cannot be long. It would be best to use them for the glory of God and the benefit of your generation."
-William Booth
User avatar
KODY 105
Radio Station
Radio Station
Posts: 13550
Joined: September 2008
Location: In downtown Odyssey

Post by KODY 105 »

Mrs Jason Whittaker wrote:Just to clarify how The Last Battle portrays heaven: Seven people that had experienced adventures in Narnia find themselves back in Narnia trying to save it from an evil imposter. In the course of doing this, the entire world is destroyed and Aslan leads them to the New Narnia which becomes a metaphorical representation of heaven. They find all the glory and wonder of Narnia without the war and conflict.
This explanation, accurate, would render the movies absolutely boring! As I recall, the movies were mainly battle scenes. Without those battle scenes, they would be half-hour shows.
Image
ToO siblings: Donna Blackbeard, Perron, Evil Chick, American Eagle, Stubborn, Shadowfax, and thelordismyshepherd (aka Anna), but StrongNChrist is my twin!
StrongNChrist, deceased 03-25-11, requiescat in pace :mecry: :mecry: :mecry:
User avatar
SivartM
Hamster
Hamster
Posts: 3748
Joined: June 2005
Location: Um... let's see... where was that? Uh... yes!
Contact:

Post by SivartM »

KODY 105 wrote:
Mrs Jason Whittaker wrote:Just to clarify how The Last Battle portrays heaven: Seven people that had experienced adventures in Narnia find themselves back in Narnia trying to save it from an evil imposter. In the course of doing this, the entire world is destroyed and Aslan leads them to the New Narnia which becomes a metaphorical representation of heaven. They find all the glory and wonder of Narnia without the war and conflict.
This explanation, accurate, would render the movies absolutely boring! As I recall, the movies were mainly battle scenes. Without those battle scenes, they would be half-hour shows.
I think the Last Battle would actually be a very good movie if they did it right... *crosses fingers and hopes they make all 7 books into movies*
User avatar
Bren
Be positive!
Posts: 6046
Joined: March 2008
Location: Behind the cash register
Gender:
Contact:

Post by Bren »

Nathan Hoobler wrote:Darien’s Rise will be at least six parts if not more.
Sounds cool
ImageImageImage
logos linked
User avatar
Gandalf
Tallying up
Posts: 121
Joined: April 2005

Post by Gandalf »

KODY 105 wrote:
Mrs Jason Whittaker wrote:Just to clarify how The Last Battle portrays heaven: Seven people that had experienced adventures in Narnia find themselves back in Narnia trying to save it from an evil imposter. In the course of doing this, the entire world is destroyed and Aslan leads them to the New Narnia which becomes a metaphorical representation of heaven. They find all the glory and wonder of Narnia without the war and conflict.
This explanation, accurate, would render the movies absolutely boring! As I recall, the movies were mainly battle scenes. Without those battle scenes, they would be half-hour shows.
It's a synopsis. Quite a bit happens that is incorporated into Mrs Jason Whittaker's phrase, "...trying to save it from an evil imposter." The representation of Heaven, if I remember correctly, is only the last 1-2 chapters. The whole book is really an allegorization of Revelation.

And at the risk of harping, I feel it's important to note that the 7 characters who end up in the "real Narnia", that is, the representation of Heaven, are dead in "this" world. They are killed in a train wreck somewhere close to London. They don't get to cheat death by simply vanishing.
Regis Blackbeard wrote:
Nathan Hoobler wrote:Darien’s Rise will be at least six parts if not more.
Sounds cool
Where did he say this? If it's true, and I hope it is, I don't see how they could include it in a regular album!
User avatar
Taq
A great mapmaker
Posts: 2848
Joined: April 2005

Post by Taq »

This is one of the best threads in recent Whit's End history. I'm enjoying the provocative discussion and participation from members we don't usually see such as Gandalf and Bennett.

I hadn't thought about the connection between Tom and Passages. Good thinking, Bennett! Call me an apathetic fan, I don't really care what the Odyssey team decides to do with Tom. I'll accept it and move on.
Regis Blackbeard wrote:
Nathan Hoobler wrote:Darien’s Rise will be at least six parts if not more.
Sounds cool
A 6-parter at least? Wow! I'm glad. The story deserves an in-depth treatment.
User avatar
Bren
Be positive!
Posts: 6046
Joined: March 2008
Location: Behind the cash register
Gender:
Contact:

Post by Bren »

It is also pretty close to the amount of episodes for a normal season.
ImageImageImage
logos linked
User avatar
Trent DeWhite
Former Mayor
Posts: 11659
Joined: April 2005
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Trent DeWhite »

Nathan Hoobler wrote:Darien’s Rise will be at least six parts if not more.
Wow, I didn't see that coming. How exciting!

This almost definitely eliminates the possibility of it being included in a regular album. And the good news with it being so long is the fact that there will be less waiting time between the Passages shows and the start of the Album 51 episodes.
User avatar
Bren
Be positive!
Posts: 6046
Joined: March 2008
Location: Behind the cash register
Gender:
Contact:

Post by Bren »

Trent DeWhite wrote:
Nathan Hoobler wrote:Darien’s Rise will be at least six parts if not more.
Wow, I didn't see that coming. How exciting!

This almost definitely eliminates the possibility of it being included in a regular album. And the good news with it being so long is the fact that there will be less waiting time between the Passages shows and the start of the Album 51 episodes.
It really pays off having the connections I do to get this information.
ImageImageImage
logos linked
User avatar
Gandalf
Tallying up
Posts: 121
Joined: April 2005

Post by Gandalf »

Regis Blackbeard wrote:
Trent DeWhite wrote:
Nathan Hoobler wrote:Darien’s Rise will be at least six parts if not more.
Wow, I didn't see that coming. How exciting!

This almost definitely eliminates the possibility of it being included in a regular album. And the good news with it being so long is the fact that there will be less waiting time between the Passages shows and the start of the Album 51 episodes.
It really pays off having the connections I do to get this information.
So hey, Mr Connected, will these episodes count in the AIO cannon? In other words, will they be assigned episode numbers 646-651, or wherever we are (I'm still not sure if the non-Kidsboro episodes on the Truth Chronicles were considered part of the canon or not). Also, since we're on the subject, is BTV: Live going to be assigned a number?
User avatar
Bren
Be positive!
Posts: 6046
Joined: March 2008
Location: Behind the cash register
Gender:
Contact:

Post by Bren »

I don't know the answer to those questions but if you guys want, I can try to find out.
ImageImageImage
logos linked
User avatar
Gandalf
Tallying up
Posts: 121
Joined: April 2005

Post by Gandalf »

Regis Blackbeard wrote:I don't know the answer to those questions but if you guys want, I can try to find out.
That would be great! Thanks.
Chandler

Post by Chandler »

While the speculation in this thread is interesting, I'd rather not see Tom die on the show. AIO is in a timewarp of sorts so I would favor his disappearance (happened to most of the characters) or that he be replaced. It's quite easy to say, "Away with the old people (Whit, Jack, Joanne, Tom, Bernard, etc.) and hand over the show to Connie, Eugene, Jason, and Wooton," but the reality would be much more difficult. I realize that Whit's role has become less important but he is still the glue that holds Odyssey together. I would rather see the lives Whit and his contemporaries be extended to some extent than to suddenly be cut off in favor of realism after 20 years of a working formula.

The AIO team said they were going to plan out the future of the show during this time and I look forward to seeing how they decide to deal with these issues while continuing to turn out a high-quality children's drama! \:D/
User avatar
Bennett
Someone's favorite
Posts: 1637
Joined: April 2005

Post by Bennett »

Shawndlay wrote:While the speculation in this thread is interesting, I'd rather not see Tom die on the show. AIO is in a timewarp of sorts so I would favor his disappearance (happened to most of the characters) or that he be replaced. It's quite easy to say, "Away with the old people (Whit, Jack, Joanne, Tom, Bernard, etc.) and hand over the show to Connie, Eugene, Jason, and Wooton," but the reality would be much more difficult. I realize that Whit's role has become less important but he is still the glue that holds Odyssey together. I would rather see the lives Whit and his contemporaries be extended to some extent than to suddenly be cut off in favor of realism after 20 years of a working formula.

The AIO team said they were going to plan out the future of the show during this time and I look forward to seeing how they decide to deal with these issues while continuing to turn out a high-quality children's drama! \:D/
I agree. Whit, as of now, is the glue that holds the show together...even though he had a disappearance for all those years. My decision right now for Tom is either a death episode, which would have to be used carefully. We have four valuable elderly cast members "Whit" "Jack" "Bernard" and "Tom", and frankly we can't have a death show for all of them. The only person I would vote for a replacement in voice is Whit, to be honest. It may sound weird, but even though its not realistic that Whit is so old and still doing the things that he does, I still think of him as a character that transcends time a bit. A third Whit, but one that sounds a lot like him, is like a good James Bond character (yes, I'm making a comparison between the world of Odyssey and of Bond); they each bring something different tot he character, but are true to who the character is supposed to be, and how they all to sound like. It's a terrible thing to plan and map out people's deaths. It's a very fickle thing to do. But, sometimes it's nice to know that something as treasured as this program can transcend time and generations and teach all kids new things. Bernard and Jack are so distinguished by their powerful acting and persona that it would be nearly impossible to replace their voice.
But what I would rather even more than a death for Tom, is an excuse why he isn't around. And a good excuse. That's why this Passages news just gives me hope that Tom can have a really great last bow off the program. He's an elderly farmer that loved nothing but his land, God, and his close friends. He valued the things around him. He was quirky, and we all loved him getting mixed up in intrigue. Marus just sounds like a place I would love to conclude his journey with. Just to know he's starting a farm somewhere else is a nice enough thought for me...
User avatar
Jacob Isom
I'm not Gabe
Posts: 672
Joined: April 2005
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by Jacob Isom »

I'm starting to think that there's nothing to this whole release of audio Passages and we're just turning it into something it's not. It's been clarified that AIO is trying to plan the future of the series, and by creating these audio episodes, it gives them more time to plan. These Passages shows will most likely be released in six nifty packages of their own and will be great as a side to the AIO series.

As for Tom's departure, I really am starting to view his departure as something unconnected to the whole Passages storyline. What do you guys think?
Image
"Providing the Scoop on Adventures in Odyssey, one cone at a time."
http://www.odysseyscoop.com | Personal Site: http://www.jacobisom.org
User avatar
Reddo
Catspaw Rocks!
Posts: 858
Joined: March 2008
Location: Smalltown, Saskatchewan
Contact:

Post by Reddo »

I agree with Jacob on this, I think that it will be nothing more than an audio version of the book, with only a few minor changes. If they wanted Tom to be in a passages story I think they should write a new one for him.

Also I think it would be very hard to pull off Tom finding clues and figuring how to get to Marus without having some interaction with other characters, remember he can't even figure out his alarm clock on his own.
Reddo
aiowiki - we have a lot of info, check us out sometime
User avatar
Trent DeWhite
Former Mayor
Posts: 11659
Joined: April 2005
Location: Canada
Contact:

Post by Trent DeWhite »

I concur. It seems like the Passages shows will be stand-alone episodes - and if they stay faithful to most of the Darien's Rise, then it'll be probably something similar to a Radio Theatre dramatization. But with an Odyssey twist. And if it's going to be entirely separate from the Odyssey canon, then it wouldn't make any sense to incorporate Tom into the script.

Does this mean they'll be releasing the Passages set this September? ;)
User avatar
Reddo
Catspaw Rocks!
Posts: 858
Joined: March 2008
Location: Smalltown, Saskatchewan
Contact:

Post by Reddo »

Trent DeWhite wrote:I concur. It seems like the Passages shows will be stand-alone episodes
I wouldn't count on that,
FOTF wrote:As far as I know, the AIO Passages episodes will be numbered episodes of AIO
that comes from a person who knows Nathan and said that Darien's Rise would be at least 4 parts before Regis posted his quote from Nathan
Reddo
aiowiki - we have a lot of info, check us out sometime
Post Reply