Vaccine Passports

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Skylerbuck
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Vaccine Passports

Post by Skylerbuck »

Hey guys,

I'm just curious what your views and perspectives are on the implementation of vaccine passports in various countries?

In Canada, where I live, all of the provinces have implemented a form of vaccine passports. Although the way it works varies from province to province, in general now you need a vaccine passport to go to places that are deemed non-essential, including:
-Several post secondary campuses (including my private Christian college)
-Restaurants
-Gyms
-Recreational activities
-Sporting events
-Concerts
-Certain stores
-One province (New Brunswick) is even discussing bringing in a requirement for churches to be at 90% vaccination

These are just a few, but there are many more places as well that will require vaccination.

Vaccines aren't required at places deemed essential such as grocery stores, banks, gas stations, etc.

The crazy thing, even with all of these vaccine requirements in place, every province in Canada still has a mask mandate, and many places still have restrictions in place.

I know that some states are like this as well, however, it does seem like most have not done this.

Personally, I am against vaccine mandates. I myself am vaccinated, but I do not believe the government should be forcing certain businesses and services to restrict themselves to only vaccines people. I believe people should be able to make choices for themselves.

I just wanted to post this to share what it is like in Canada, but also get perspectives from other people.
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Bob
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Post by Bob »

I don't have anything against vaccinations in general, or even necessarily the (best) COVID vaccines specifically, but I'm strongly opposed to this policy, both out of principle and for practical reasons.

The logic most governments have around the world seem to be buying into goes something like this: the spread of COVID has to be stopped at any cost, and vaccines are the best tool for fighting COVID, so people should be vaccinated at any cost.

Earlier on, they mostly provided soft incentives (you don't have to feel socially required to wear a mask at a certain limited number of places now), then they moved to bribes, and now they've apparently resorted to 'vaccinate or else'. The strategy and results have thus borne an uncanny resemblance to Microsoft's business practices, e.g. the Windows 10 rollout.

What they don't seem to realize is that the harder you try to get people to buy into something, the more people are led to suspect your motives. Considering that one of the largest barriers to widespread COVID vaccine adoption is people's distrust of the government and/or 'big pharma' and/or the vaccines, this seems to be the exact wrong approach. I don't think COVID vaccines are part of a sinister plot, but it's no wonder that conspiracy theorists feel validated when the government is using the same strategies as if they were.

The underlying problem is that people don't trust their governments, and there are good reasons for that lack of trust; the tendency of those facing this distrust to brush this off and view their detractors as ignorant, iniquitous or insane is not conducive to restoring this broken relationship. There isn't a quick or easy answer to this, but a focus on dialogue instead of vilification is a step in the right direction.
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jelly
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Post by jelly »

Skylerbuck wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:28 pm The crazy thing, even with all of these vaccine requirements in place, every province in Canada still has a mask mandate, and many places still have restrictions in place.
Is that crazy? Within the past two weeks I've had two separate friends - one who'd been double-vaxed and one who had his first shot - both come down with a semi-severe COVID infection. My one friend was almost to the point of needing to go to the hospital. I'm not sure where in Canada you live, but I live in one of the rural provinces (that overwhelmingly voted blue last week, haha) and our governments have been among the least restrictive; they've only resorted back to mask mandates out of desperation after our ICU's are overwhelmed with both non-vaccinated and vaccinated (to a lesser percent).

I know that many of us experienced a sense of "Yay, now this vaccine will make us invincible!" but unfortunately we're learning that it's not the be-all, end-all. Governments seem to be understanding that the best way to mitigate transmission is to take advantage of all the tools we have at our disposal, not just one.

We can't prevent car accidents from ever happening, but we can mitigate the likelihood with the more traffic regulations we enforce. We don't just say, "Speed limits are in place, so seatbelts can be optional." We want people to have the best chances of staying alive, so we enforce both.

Bob wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:52 pm What they don't seem to realize is that the harder you try to get people to buy into something, the more people are led to suspect your motives. Considering that one of the largest barriers to widespread COVID vaccine adoption is people's distrust of the government and/or 'big pharma' and/or the vaccines, this seems to be the exact wrong approach.
What do you think a solution to this would be? People in government know that a percentage of the population inherently distrust them no matter what, and they know that they're up against the viral spreading of misinformation (which is impossible to get ahead of). Maybe it seems to you or I like their attention could be more focused on people with fears and anxieties who feel like they want more information before being told what to do, but do you imagine it's likely that a lot of the government's attention is focused on realities being experienced by hospitals and medical professionals? Frankly, ICU beds being at maximum capacity might represent a little more of an urgent priority than buddy who doesn't like being told what to do, wouldn't you agree?

I'm not suggesting that I'm fully in favour of government overreach. Lots of parts of government frustrate me. But I guess I'm having a really hard time understanding why people are focused on government policies instead of medical research and recommendations. Why have vaccinations become politicized? They weren't invented by politicians. They were developed by doctors.
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ByeByeBrownie
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Post by ByeByeBrownie »

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying here @jelly. The vaccine has unfortunately become a highly polarized political issue, when that's not what it's supposed to be about at all.

I do have something I've been wondering about, though. I've heard a lot of people decrying how those with legitimate reasons to be exempt from vaccine mandates (e.g. allergies) are being told that they must still comply regardless. Everything I've read about the rules in my area indicates that exemptions are made for such cases, but I have several friends who insist they know people who have been refused reasonable exemptions. I have not personally seen anything like that myself, though. Does anybody else have any insight they could offer?
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Jonathan
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Post by Jonathan »

Jelly wrote:Within the past two weeks I've had two separate friends - one who'd been double-vaxed and one who had his first shot - both come down with a semi-severe COVID infection. My one friend was almost to the point of needing to go to the hospital.
To bring it back to the topic on hand, that of course begs the question of why the mandate if the vaccine is so ineffective. A neighbor of mine just died of covid. He too was vaxxed.
ByeByeBrownie wrote:I do have something I've been wondering about, though. I've heard a lot of people decrying how those with legitimate reasons to be exempt from vaccine mandates (e.g. allergies) are being told that they must still comply regardless. Everything I've read about the rules in my area indicates that exemptions are made for such cases, but I have several friends who insist they know people who have been refused reasonable exemptions. I have not personally seen anything like that myself, though. Does anybody else have any insight they could offer?
Minnesotan here, and in that position. Currently going through the process for an exemption at work. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.
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