Complete Adventures in Odyssey Collection on Ebay

[jennifertwt]

But you can legally backup CDs while you own them... I'm unaware of a YOU MUST DELETE clause if you sell things. But I tend to ignore copyright laws.

I think copyright laws have their place. But tend to view them a bit loosely on things that are not available commercially.

[Laffy the Wonderdog]

I know I'm chiming in a little late - but I wanted to throw in a link to the U.S. Copyright code: http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-infringement.html Section 106 says that only the owner of a work's copyright (so, Focus on the Family) has the right to reproduce a work, or to sell, rent, lease, or lend a copy of a work.

Think about it this way: if I buy a car (I wish!), I can do whatever I want with it. I can give it to a friend, or I can use it myself. I can even resell it. But it's physically impossible for me to both keep the car and sell it to a friend. The car's either in my driveway, or it's at my friend's house -- it can't be in two places at once!

That's how albums are supposed to work too... because, like cars, they're products. I can keep the album for myself, or I can give it to a friend... but the episodes can't be in two places at once. If they are, "something" illegal has occurred. The eBay sale would be fine if the seller didn't make the mp3 copies for him/herself, but as it stands, selling the albums is actually a crime.

As AiO fans, I hope we'll take "the high road" and not encourage illegal activity -- 'cause even if everyone is doing it, it's still not right. (Thank you, Jason Whittaker!)

(On an unrelated note, as Dallas R. pointed out, this hurts Focus on the Family like stealing an album from a bookstore would... so if we encourage this, we're indirectly hurting the makers of Adventures in Odyssey -- from Nathan and Dave and Paul to all the actors we love!)

Sorry for such a long first post... I'll keep them shorter in the future, m'kay?
What do you think? Did I get any of my info wrong?

[Smaug the Dragon]

You saved me from trying to say the exact same thing, only you said it much better.

Having recently been lectured on this subject at Camp, I've been thinking about how often Christians do things like stealing, without even realising it... I never really thought about the whole copyright thing until recently.

[The Top Crusader]

Since Focus is a non-profit, you technically don't have to pay them anything!

[Dallas R.]

Yep. Laughy said exactly what I've been trying to say, but in way that makes a lot more sense than the way I said it, so thank you. And I'll admit that I've done my share of stealing some episodes of Odyssey, such as recording some of them off of the internet. It's nice, convenient, (let's not forget that's it's a lot cheaper) but overall, it's still wrong, and hurts the company... hmm. Maybe I should be throwing away some Odyssey CD's of mine...

[jennifertwt]

And how do items fit in that are not commercially available?

[Laffy the Wonderdog]

Jennifer, I don't know of anything that lets us work "outside the law" when it comes to things that aren't commercially available -- though maybe you could explain exactly what you mean?

See, in the U.S., copyright is applied as soon as someone creates something. For instance, the moment I draw a picture, I'm the copyright owner of that picture, for the rest of my life... and then some. So (though I'm not an expert!) I don't know how anyone else could claim any sort of right to make copies of a work that's not theirs.

Even when a movie, book, or CD is out of print, the copyright owner still owns it. (In fact, I know of one entertainment company that actually intentionally lets DVD's go out of print so that, a couple years down the road, they can be re-released at premium prices. In the meantime though, even while the movie isn't available in stores, they still retain full copyright... it's still their movie, and it's still illegal to make copies of it for others.) Is that helpful?

Smaug, I feel you! The technology we have today makes stealing super-easy... so easy, that we can forget about what we're doing and just "go along with it." Sometimes my selfishness ("I want this right now -- for free!") can overcome my desire to do what's right in God's eyes, or to think about the many people my decision is affecting. ::Sigh::

[therealjoecool]

Jennifer, I don't know of anything that lets us work "outside the law" when it comes to things that aren't commercially available -- though maybe you could explain exactly what you mean?

See, in the U.S., copyright is applied as soon as someone creates something. For instance, the moment I draw a picture, I'm the copyright owner of that picture, for the rest of my life... and then some. So (though I'm not an expert!) I don't know how anyone else could claim any sort of right to make copies of a work that's not theirs.

Even when a movie, book, or CD is out of print, the copyright owner still owns it. (In fact, I know of one entertainment company that actually intentionally lets DVD's go out of print so that, a couple years down the road, they can be re-released at premium prices. In the meantime though, even while the movie isn't available in stores, they still retain full copyright... it's still their movie, and it's still illegal to make copies of it for others.) Is that helpful?

Smaug, I feel you! The technology we have today makes stealing super-easy... so easy, that we can forget about what we're doing and just "go along with it." Sometimes my selfishness ("I want this right now -- for free!") can overcome my desire to do what's right in God's eyes, or to think about the many people my decision is affecting. ::Sigh::

Hmmmm... I wonder what entertainment company you could be talking about??? Hmmmm.... wouldn't happen to be the mouse would it? LOL! "That's right kids, tell mom & dad to get you a copy of 'The Great Mouse Detective' right away, before it goes back into the Disney vault— FOREVER!"

[jennifertwt]

Okay, but isn't there a certain point where things become 'public domain'? I think I remember hearing that's how It's a Wonderful Life' became so popular. When the copyrights expired, tv stations across the country started airing it year after year. Because things that go out over the airwaves (radio, tv, internet) are so PUBLIC

-- 15 Jul 2010 07:16 am --

Okay, but isn't there a certain point where things become 'public domain'? I think I remember hearing that's how It's a Wonderful Life' became so popular. When the copyrights expired, tv stations across the country started airing it year after year. Because things that go out over the airwaves (radio, tv, internet) are so PUBLIC

sorry, using work keyboard (swedish) and that one got away from me.

It would seem that things that are so PUBLIC to begin with should at some point, be free. Think of it, no other profession is paid perpetually for their work. Only actors, writers, etc get paid for something they did ages ago. Most of us get paid by the job or days we put into the work. I don't get paid perpetually for something I did years ago. I used to produce a newsletter in my previous job. I don't get paid perpetually anytime someone wants to request a back copy. I'm not speaking against Focus on the Family in particular AT ALL, just the entertainment business and copyright system in general since we were on the topic.

[odysseyfan1]

I think Library and Education has the whole collection for $500 or something.

[Laffy the Wonderdog]

I don't want to get too far off-topic, so I'll just add that, yes, some things are in the public domain -- but since Odyssey is only twenty-odd years old, nothing Odyssey-related is in the public domain yet. (And, "It's a Wonderful Life" isn't public domain either... even though people used to think it was... it's a funny story, but you can look it up on Google easily enough!) If we're going to discuss the ups and downs of copyright law, we should probably move over to another thread...?

[Stop Wooton' Around]

I don't want to get too far off-topic, so I'll just add that, yes, some things are in the public domain -- but since Odyssey is only twenty-odd years old, nothing Odyssey-related is in the public domain yet. (And, "It's a Wonderful Life" isn't public domain either... even though people used to think it was... it's a funny story, but you can look it up on Google easily enough!) If we're going to discuss the ups and downs of copyright law, we should probably move over to another thread...?

Like the Debate Society but I don't know if I have enough ambition to start one there. I know, I know I'm getting lazy.

[American Eagle]

I say this place is fine. Moving a discussion like this really isn't necessary, if you ask me.

[Laffy the Wonderdog]

Okay... I'm new, so I'll trust you long-time ToO'ers!

There's not a really clear "point" at which things become public domain. That varies by country, and by date of publication, and by a million other things. In the States, you're safe if something was published before 1923. (For the U.S., check this out: http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm -- and this chart doesn't even mention anything about watching out for "derivative works," the issue that kept It's a Wonderful Life from entering public domain!) Should it really be this complicated? Probably not. Will it ever get easier to understand? Maybe. Will a million lawsuits be filed in the meantime? Definitely!

I tend to favor actors and writers receiving royalties. After all, who should decide how much to pay an author trying to sell his first play? Who knows what kind of impact it might have, or what kind of popularity it will enjoy? No one knows. So, tying the author's deferred payment to future sales helps everyone -- if the play bombs, the author shares in the loss. If the play soars, the author "wins" as well.

There's also something "special" about the act of creation... probably part of why we have such complex copyright laws. (The other part? Good lawyers.) Making a movie is very different from making, say, a hamburger. It may sound cliche, but oftentimes an actor puts his "soul" into his role. The teen working at my local burger joint doesn't put his heart into my hamburger (though one time I found his hair....) So, it's tough to say that the hamburger-maker and the movie-maker should be paid the same way. There's something so fundamentally "different" about the process. Just my two cents!

[TigerintheShadows]

Complex copyright laws were probably written so that no one with good sense would decide to mess with them.

[darcie]

It would seem that things that are so PUBLIC to begin with should at some point, be free. Think of it, no other profession is paid perpetually for their work. Only actors, writers, etc get paid for something they did ages ago. Most of us get paid by the job or days we put into the work. I don't get paid perpetually for something I did years ago. I used to produce a newsletter in my previous job. I don't get paid perpetually anytime someone wants to request a back copy. I'm not speaking against Focus on the Family in particular AT ALL, just the entertainment business and copyright system in general since we were on the topic.

Just as an aside, the AIO cast does not get royalties. They are paid a session fee, which is for the performance itself. If they did, my financial situation would be a bit easier!
Other contract situations do call for the actor/writer/whatever to get royalties. This is negotiated as part of the contract, like an incentive. So a benefit to them for the work selling well or continuing to air would be to get a portion of the proceeds. As the majority of actors that are even a part of the acting unions SAG and AFTRA are earning below poverty level from acting jobs alone, I don't see how this kind of incentive is a problem. It is beneficial to the studio paying them too, as they will not be paying as much upfront for a product that may not even make money on. The TV show goes into syndication and continues to earn the studio money, so they pay the actors an additional dividend of those earnings. Say some articles in the newsletter you used to produce are requested to be reprinted in a newspaper. The paper would pay for permission to reprint, and the people responsible for handling the permissions would split the payment among the responsible parties.


On the topic of the resold CDs, is it mean to hope for hard drive failure of the seller's computer?

[IForgotMyUserName]

If there's any Odyssey auction on ebay that should be getting complaints, it's this one which is definitely breaking copyright laws.

I reported the item a month ago, but it's still there. A few more "report this item" clicks might finally get it removed.

[The Top Crusader]

Ooooh. Yeah. That is a bit more obvious.

[darcie]

What a travesty. Hi, let's steal from a not for profit ministry by copying a Christian audio drama and repackaging it. Has he even listened to the show? Anyway, reported both his current listings, the other being a rip of the Kingdom's Series.

[IForgotMyUserName]

Wow, that other ebay listing is still up and EIGHT people have bought it now, at least four of those people paying $100 dollars each for it according to the page. I wonder how many of those people bought it to obtain what is presented as a "legal" copy of some of the Odyssey USA episodes.

This is getting ridiculous.