The Golden Compass

Anti-religion children's movie based on books

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Post by Movieman »

Mel wrote:
jasonjannajerryjohn wrote:
movieman85 wrote:
jasonjannajerryjohn wrote:
movieman85 wrote:
Kairi wrote:I heard that. I saw the trailer and it looked really interesting. Too bad it's anti-God. :(
I might see it from the library, since it's free from there. O:) But I probably won't. :)
Top wrote:I think we should all get together and make a big budget Christian themed movie to counteract it.
I've got an idea that's on the same level as STRYPER! There's these hobbits, elves, humans, wizards, and dwarves, and they all go on a quest to destroy a ring! \:D/

Oh, wait...that's already been made! #-o I know! They could re-release it! :-

:wink:
And now I feel like Gabe, 'cuz I used so many smilies. :anxious:
Maybe we could go on a quest to find the other rings of power? I know Galadriel has one, but who else?

Knowing my luck, there's probably some LOTR fan that knows where they all are anyway.
Galadriel, Elrond, and I think Thranduil, but I'm not sure about that last one.
I was talking about all the rings, including the ones that the Dwarf-Lords have. :D
Oh, I don't know those, only the elves and of corse the One Ring.
Galadriel, Elrond, and Gandalf had the three Elven rings. As for the Dwarven rings, I don't know about all of them, but I believe some of them were eaten by dragons.

Now I feel like a showoff.:anxious:
They should find out which dragons ate them, and either go find where their remains are or go kill them and *thinks of something not so graphic*... clean them out.

Hey, I just thought of something. Does anyone know if the other (existing) rings of power were affected in any way when The One Ring was destroyed?
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Post by STRYPER »

Gandalf has an Elvish Ring? :-s

I thought he wasn't a ring bearer....

What about that elf dude next to Galadriel in Lothlorian? I always thought he had the last one.
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Post by Movieman »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rings_of_power

Check out this website. I thought of checking wikipedia and it seems to give a reasonably good history of each ring of power.
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Post by Elrohir »

underdogfan710 wrote:
Elrohir wrote:Pullman wrote his books as a response to Narnia. He hates The Chronicle of Narnia. He says they brainwash kids with Christianity, racism, and sexism. He calls his books the anti-Narnia books.
Well, of course they "brainwash" kids with Christianity, but racism? Sexism? What? :-s
Some people view The Horse and His Boy and The Last Battle as being racist because all the bad guys are dark skinned. Of course they ignore the fact that one of the Calormenes (Aravis) is a protagonist and she even marries Cor in the end, which is a pretty bold racial statement especially considering when it was written. Another Tarkaan was a protaganist in LB as well.

And anyone who thinks the books are sexist is retarded and doesn't know how to read, but that's what people believe and people see what they believe.
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Post by STRYPER »

movieman85 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rings_of_power

Check out this website. I thought of checking wikipedia and it seems to give a reasonably good history of each ring of power.
Very helpful. This explains why Gandalf has one of the rings at the end but was not given one originally.
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Post by aiofan »

ok, i have read the books.

i don't think they compare to narnia. narnia goes in such a quicker pace! more entertaining.

the first book is good. the second book is ok...but i got a little bored. the third book, i can't remember exactly all the details, but they"duel" and "kill" God, and some dude who is supposed to be "god" falls out of the sky. um...so weird!

i think more disconcerting things about the book is the child abuse/torture, and parents killing their kid's friends, etc is more disturbing. the movie plans to take out the last three chapters, so the gory scary parts are not in it.

honestly, I couldn't tell that the author is atheist by reading the books. you can definitely tell he is against the church being working as the government. i more thought the book was against the mistakes of the church, and how some bad issues get shoved under the carpet.

i think the movie will probably be ok, but i don't think the violence and killing is appropriate for young readers.

hope that was coherent...im kinda tired...
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Post by Jennifer Doyle »

Satan is the god of atheism. His greatest accomplishment is convincing people that he does not exist and that God does not exist. I didn't hear any of this about the movie until now, but I'm glad I do know so I can NOT watch it and warn my Christian friends not to as well.
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Post by Jonathan »

Kairi wrote:And now I feel like Gabe, 'cuz I used so many smilies. :anxious:
That's one of the funniest things that's been posted in quite some time.

I first heard of this on...Sat? Some friends from church filled me in on Sunday as to what the controversy was.

I wonder if Pullman realizes how hypocritical his reasons for writing those books in the first place are.....
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Post by Applesauce »

I'll probably rent it when it comes out on DVD. I'm all for not supporting this movie, which is why I will not pay to see it in theaters, but I would like to see the movie so that I can have a better opinion on where I stand. That way I can have better ground to argue the film's morals.
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Post by Catspaw »

That does make sense. Today I read an article on the Plugged In site that supports the other opinions from Christian groups that have already been posted in this thread. Click here to read it. Like Applesauce, I might eventually see it myself, but I would certainly never watch it with a child. It sounds like there are far better choices out there!
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Post by Alisha Richardson Wolfe »

If there's one thing that drives me crazy it's people that judge something before they fully understand it. For anyone who hasn't read the books, read them and then form your own opinions. There was this same thing going around my college a couple weeks ago about The Golden Compass. An article came out in the college newspaper. One of the English Professors was quoted in that article. She said, "I have also read the books on which the movie was based. However, I would have to see reputable articles actually quoting the author as to his intention to destory religion before I would accept those quotes." Yes the books are ambiguous about religion (I'm currently reading them) but the author has never said that he intended his books to be anti-religion or anti-God. This is what Pullman says on his website, "I don't know whether there's a God or not. Nobody does, no matter what they say." He doesn't say he's athethist (who btw don't believe in any higher power, not Satan as someone previously stated on this post). Please either read the books or see the movie before jumping to conclusions or believing everything you read on the internet.
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Post by STRYPER »

Alisha Richardson Wolfe wrote:If there's one thing that drives me crazy it's people that judge something before they fully understand it. For anyone who hasn't read the books, read them and then form your own opinions. There was this same thing going around my college a couple weeks ago about The Golden Compass. An article came out in the college newspaper. One of the English Professors was quoted in that article. She said, "I have also read the books on which the movie was based. However, I would have to see reputable articles actually quoting the author as to his intention to destory religion before I would accept those quotes." Yes the books are ambiguous about religion (I'm currently reading them) but the author has never said that he intended his books to be anti-religion or anti-God. This is what Pullman says on his website, "I don't know whether there's a God or not. Nobody does, no matter what they say." He doesn't say he's athethist (who btw don't believe in any higher power, not Satan as someone previously stated on this post). Please either read the books or see the movie before jumping to conclusions or believing everything you read on the internet.
I did not jump to conclusions. I have proof that Phillip Pullman is not only trying to avoid God in his books but is deliberately attacking God and Christianity.


Here's a link to an article over 5 years ago after the three books were released. In it he says:
The Washington Post wrote:But Pullman insists the similarities stop there. "What I'm doing is utterly different," he says. "Tolkien would have deplored it."

So, too, would have another famous Oxford fantasy writer, C.S. Lewis, a devout Christian whose children's series "The Chronicles of Narnia" exemplified his religious convictions. "I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief," says Pullman. "Mr. Lewis would think I was doing the Devil's work."

Pullman read the Narnia books as an adult and found them deeply disturbing.
But the real proof is in the plot of the story. There is an omnipotent ruler that is "stifling" people's freedom. The book is about overthrowing that ruler by finding the one tool that can kill "God." In the end, we find that "God" is relieved to be rescued from such a laborious task. God and the church are analogous for stuffy, anti-freedom oppression while Satan and his demons are analogous to the beautiful freedom and glory of a world without a dictator.
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Post by Alisha Richardson Wolfe »

So, too, would have another famous Oxford fantasy writer, C.S. Lewis, a devout Christian whose children's series "The Chronicles of Narnia" exemplified his religious convictions. "I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief," says Pullman. "Mr. Lewis would think I was doing the Devil's work."

Pullman read the Narnia books as an adult and found them deeply disturbing. "Lewis was celebrating, upholding certain activities and attitudes which I am explicitly against, such as bullying, racism, misogyny. Girls are no good, says C.S. Lewis. Girls are only good as long as they act like boys. If they're tough, they're okay, but intrinsically they're inferior. People with dark skins who probably come from somewhere sinister like the East, and almost inevitably smell of garlic, are always a sign of evil or danger."

In the final Narnia book, "The Last Battle," the older girl is excluded from salvation because she has become too interested in lipstick, nylons and invitations. "In other words, she's growing up. She's entering adulthood," says Pullman. "Now this for Lewis, was something . . . so dreadful and so redolent of sin that he had to send her to Hell. I find that appalling."

The coming of age of Lyra and Will, which serves as the culmination of the trilogy, represents an alternative view of the business of growing up. "This is the moment when they become truly what they could be," says Pullman. "Mr. Lewis would have hated it."

Both Lewis and Tolkien stressed "the otherness" and superiority of their fantasy worlds. Pullman is passionately opposed to that, too. He gazes out the window and watches the unending downpour that is turning his yard into a mucky pool. "I want to open people's eyes if I can, and their hearts and their minds to the extraordinary fact that we're alive in this world, which, although it is full of rain and mud, is nevertheless extraordinary and wonderful. And the more you explore it and discover about it -- scientifically, imaginatively, artistically -- the more wonderful and extraordinary it becomes."
Also quoted from the above article. Pullman has some issues but when taken into context it's not so bad.

My suggestion: Read the books as educated adults. Don't let kids read the books as they are ambiguous and there is no real conculusion. But READ THE BOOKS YOURSELF! Keep an open mind until the end and then draw conculsions.
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Post by Jonathan »

Alisha Richardson Wolfe wrote:
So, too, would have another famous Oxford fantasy writer, C.S. Lewis, a devout Christian whose children's series "The Chronicles of Narnia" exemplified his religious convictions. "I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief," says Pullman. "Mr. Lewis would think I was doing the Devil's work."

Pullman read the Narnia books as an adult and found them deeply disturbing. "Lewis was celebrating, upholding certain activities and attitudes which I am explicitly against, such as bullying, racism, misogyny. Girls are no good, says C.S. Lewis. Girls are only good as long as they act like boys. If they're tough, they're okay, but intrinsically they're inferior. People with dark skins who probably come from somewhere sinister like the East, and almost inevitably smell of garlic, are always a sign of evil or danger."

In the final Narnia book, "The Last Battle," the older girl is excluded from salvation because she has become too interested in lipstick, nylons and invitations. "In other words, she's growing up. She's entering adulthood," says Pullman. "Now this for Lewis, was something . . . so dreadful and so redolent of sin that he had to send her to Hell. I find that appalling."

The coming of age of Lyra and Will, which serves as the culmination of the trilogy, represents an alternative view of the business of growing up. "This is the moment when they become truly what they could be," says Pullman. "Mr. Lewis would have hated it."

Both Lewis and Tolkien stressed "the otherness" and superiority of their fantasy worlds. Pullman is passionately opposed to that, too. He gazes out the window and watches the unending downpour that is turning his yard into a mucky pool. "I want to open people's eyes if I can, and their hearts and their minds to the extraordinary fact that we're alive in this world, which, although it is full of rain and mud, is nevertheless extraordinary and wonderful. And the more you explore it and discover about it -- scientifically, imaginatively, artistically -- the more wonderful and extraordinary it becomes."
Also quoted from the above article. Pullman has some issues but when taken into context it's not so bad.

My suggestion: Read the books as educated adults. Don't let kids read the books as they are ambiguous and there is no real conculusion. But READ THE BOOKS YOURSELF! Keep an open mind until the end and then draw conculsions.
Oh, it is arguments like this that send me straight through the roof.

One can keep an open mind without reading the book, and one can have an open mind while still being opposed to something. Shocking, this must be to you.

Either contribute to the discussion or don't post. Just don't come in here and accuse us of not having an open-mind because of the conclusion we've reached. It doesn't accomplish a single thing except alienating the other side, and pretty much destroys any chance you have of actually convincing someone of your opinion when you get around to backing it up with facts.

edit-
And now that I've read what you've quoted, yes, there is still much wrong there. However, it's late, and my credibility with you has probably been damaged by this point, so I'll let someone else tackle that.
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Post by Alisha Richardson Wolfe »

Sorry if it annoys me when me when people take one extreme without seeing the other side. I read the entire post. I also know about the arguement that occured on my college campus. A campus I would like to point out that is a Christian instution and the professor I was quoting is a Christian as well. As a history major I'm being taught to see all sides of the agruement before making a conculsion. I'm sorry I posted earlier. I should have realized that sooner that nothing anyone said would change your mind. I was trying to contribute by bringing another point of view about the topic. Again I'm sorry. You can go back the protests and boycotts all you want.
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Post by Elf of Rivendell »

Right now I don't have the time to post something more substantial, but for the moment, suffice it to say that I agree fully with Jonathan.

However... I do feel the need to point out some of the fallacies I noticed in the quote.
Pullman read the Narnia books as an adult and found them deeply disturbing. "Lewis was celebrating, upholding certain activities and attitudes which I am explicitly against, such as bullying, racism, misogyny.

Girls are no good, says C.S. Lewis. Girls are only good as long as they act like boys. If they're tough, they're okay, but intrinsically they're inferior. People with dark skins who probably come from somewhere sinister like the East, and almost inevitably smell of garlic, are always a sign of evil or danger."
Bullying: Nowhere is this ever celebrated or viewed in a positive light in the books. Bullying does appear in the Silver Chair--one of the main characters in this book is the victim of bullying, which is condemned in the book in no uncertain terms.

Racism: As Elrohir already noted, Aravis, a Calormene, is a major character in one of the books. She also happens to marry Cor, an Archenlander. (Personally, I find the obsession over supposed racism rather ridiculous. Sure, actual instances of racism exist even now. But calling a book racist because several antagonists have dark skin? Come on, people.)

Misogyny: "Girls are no good, says C.S. Lewis. Girls are only good as long as they act like boys." I have a big problem with this statement. Lucy (a major character in several of the books) certainly doesn't act like a boy. Nor Polly. Nor Jill (unless being a Girl Scout or being physically fit automatically makes you boyish). I could go on and on.
In the final Narnia book, "The Last Battle," the older girl is excluded from salvation because she has become too interested in lipstick, nylons and invitations. "In other words, she's growing up. She's entering adulthood," says Pullman. "Now this for Lewis, was something . . . so dreadful and so redolent of sin that he had to send her to Hell. I find that appalling."
C.S. Lewis does make it quite clear that Susan has drifted away from Narnia (i.e. the faith). But nowhere do you read that she is necessarily excluded from salvation. The others all entered the new Narnia because they had died in their world. Susan didn't. Lewis was not stating that Susan's interest in "lipstick, nylons, and invitations" was leading her to Hell. He was rather describing how her focus had strayed from her faith to more trivial things--she was allowing these things to choke out her faith. Lewis, however, presumably leaves the rest of her character open-ended. He doesn't say whether she stayed that way or eventually returned to Narnia.

That's my take on it, at least; if I happen to be wrong, feel free to correct me.
Alisha wrote: Also quoted from the above article. Pullman has some issues but when taken into context it's not so bad.

My suggestion: Read the books as educated adults. Don't let kids read the books as they are ambiguous and there is no real conculusion.
Agnosticism IS a worldview that sets itself against God. It's not truly ambiguous, nor does it serve as any kind of middle ground.

No, I haven't read the Golden Compass--and I don't intend to, at least not in the near future--but Pullman's intentions are quite clear nonetheless, from things I've read about him and from things he himself states.

[edit] fixed formatting. <_<
[edit2] also syntax. >_>
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Post by STRYPER »

Elf of Rivendell wrote:Bullying: Nowhere is this ever celebrated or viewed in a positive light in the books. Bullying does appear in the Silver Chair--one of the main characters in this book is the victim of bullying, which is condemned in the book in no uncertain terms.
Probably the biggest instance of bullying is in VDT with Eustace, but as he is redeemed in the book, his argument doesn't hold any water there either.



Jonathan, calm down ;)



Alisha, I would like to have an open mind, and I do respect your opinion as someone who has read the books vs someone like myself who hasn't. However, unlike some books Christians attack (e.g. Harry Potter) this author has directly targeted Christianity. J.K. Rowling has similar things in her books but her intentions were purely for entertainment and fantasy. Pullman, by his own admission is after much more. Why, he's practically propagandizing his message of anti-Christianity purposefully into the minds of children.

Trust, I'm VERY interested in reading this book and am generally not one of the "Ban this book!!!! Boycott at all costs!!!" crowd. However, I'm seriously considering it in this case.
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Post by hubcap »

movieman85 wrote:
Kairi wrote:I heard that. I saw the trailer and it looked really interesting. Too bad it's anti-God. :(
I might see it from the library, since it's free from there. O:) But I probably won't. :)
Top wrote:I think we should all get together and make a big budget Christian themed movie to counteract it.
I've got an idea that's on the same level as STRYPER! There's these hobbits, elves, humans, wizards, and dwarves, and they all go on a quest to destroy a ring! \:D/

Oh, wait...that's already been made! #-o I know! They could re-release it! :-

:wink:
And now I feel like Gabe, 'cuz I used so many smilies. :anxious:
Maybe we could go on a quest to find the other rings of power? I know Galadriel has one, but who else?

Knowing my luck, there's probably some LOTR fan that knows where they all are anyway.
what's his face...they are "together" or something....uh..Co...something. Him.

EDIT: I have read the first two books. I rather enjoyed the first book. The story, not the "deeper meaning". I have to admit that it got entirely too weird for me, which is why I stopped reading.

About being open minded... just because you have strong believes about something, doesn't mean that you aren't open minded. I, for one, am completely against homosexuality (I know this has nothing to do with this thread, but it makes my point.) but I have several friends who have taken to that life style. Just because they are my friends, doesn't mean that I am ok with their life styles. Jonathan and everyone else who has said something about boycotting these books have given me no reason to think that they are close-minded.

I am going to end my rant here before I take this completely out of context. My advice....don't read the books. They are weird and hard to follow. And...have immoral thoughts behind them.
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Post by Dr. Watson »

The FotF thingie that Catspaw linked to wrote:Pullman has said unambiguously, "My books are about killing God."
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